[AgentTikki]

doesn't even need to hit it, just close enough to let the turbulence snap that ciggie in half.

I'd say you just have to get within 3 feet of it, for a 10mm to do the job. It Doesn't even need to hit it, just close enough to let the turbulence snap that ciggie in half.

[Blue1]

Originally Posted by kfox75

Blue1. If you don't like the company around here, you are free to leave anytime you wish. I myself would pesonally miss having you around, you do make a pretty good devil's addvocate, and I enjoy most of your posts.

However I do belive the statement that you quoted. A firearm does not have to be extremely accurat to repatedly make "impossible" shots, It merely needs to be consistent. If you know your M1 shoots 1 inch high and 3\8 of an inch left at 50 yards, you should be able to compensate for that. A professional shooter like McGivern, the Topperwines, Tom Knapp, and others practice with their weapons pretty much daily, and can go through hundreds of thousands of rounds a year. With sending that much ammo down range comes knowledge of what bullet weight, powder types ang weights, primer types, and manufatures products work best. Along with this level of practice, comes muscle memory, technique, and trigger control. All of which are combined in an amazing and repeatable shot. That is why they are refered to as extreme marksmen. This training and practice starts, in most cases, at a young age, but not everyone gets to the point of being a shooting god. Some people are just better shots than others naturally. I class myself as an average shooter, and I am not ashamed when someone else outshoots me. I shake their hand, ask them how they practice, how they modified their bow or firearm, what the technique they used is, and I listen to what they tell me. That is how I learn, and how I sometimes get the opportunity to teach others. Humility will get you farther in life than anger, and it will get you in far less trouble.

As I said above, you can leave if you want to, but I kinda like having you around. Granted, it is in spite of the fact that you called me a liar, but we all have a right to our own opinions. If you want to fell more welcome on this forum, please try to be tactful when repling to the posts of the other members. Even when you think they are wrong. It will keep you from getting hit with the Ban Hammer.

I appreciate your comments.

To me, an inaccurate firearm of any type is one that cannot hold tight groups. If it consistently holds tight groups, but not on sight, it is not inaccurate, it just needs sight adjustment. Does anyone think a pro shooter's equipment is not sighted in properly?

However, your appreciation of my devil's advocate stance is, well, appreciated.

I know I'm not doing anyone here any favors, but maybe I'll stick around for awhile. I just bristle at stories that aren't 100% factual.

Blue1

[Vikingdad]

Originally Posted by Blue1

I just bristle at stories that aren't 100% factual.

Blue1

Is that a fact?

YouTube

YouTube

[trip286]

Ugh... Sorry guys, I tried.

[kfox75]

Originally Posted by trip286

Ugh... Sorry guys, I tried.

Don't worry Walt, We all know you tried.

[trip286]

I just knew that if I shared my tips on adjusting your grip, sticking your tongue out at a 32.5 degree angle leftward, and turning your ball cap upward at a 22 degree angle while rotating it to the northeast to tighten a shotgun pattern...

[danf_fl]

Originally Posted by trip286

I just knew that if I shared my tips on adjusting your grip, sticking your tongue out at a 32.5 degree angle leftward, and turning your ball cap upward at a 22 degree angle while rotating it to the northeast to tighten a shotgun pattern...

Trip, you forgot about the considering the time of month.

The full moon does have an affect on high tides, people's attitudes, and getting lucky.

[trip286]

Originally Posted by danf_fl

Trip, you forgot about the considering the time of month.

The full moon does have an affect on high tides, people's attitudes, and getting lucky.

My apologies. I also forgot the negative coriolis flux pattern effect of the northwest hemisphere.

[HOSSFLY]

Originally Posted by trip286

My apologies. I also forgot the negative coriolis flux pattern effect of the northwest hemisphere.

You also forgot to figure in the fact that trying to explain that there technical kinda jargun to sum of us is like tryin to expain evoloution to the Pope

[kfox75]

Originally Posted by Blue1

I appreciate your comments.

To me, an inaccurate firearm of any type is one that cannot hold tight groups. If it consistently holds tight groups, but not on sight, it is not inaccurate, it just needs sight adjustment. Does anyone think a pro shooter's equipment is not sighted in properly?

However, your appreciation of my devil's advocate stance is, well, appreciated.

I know I'm not doing anyone here any favors, but maybe I'll stick around for awhile. I just bristle at stories that aren't 100% factual.

Blue1

Ah, but you are missing a big part of the premise of the post you quoted. Not every gun's sights can be adjusted. Some are only adjustable in 1\4 inch incraments. Therefore, in order to hit accuratly, you have to aim at a point other than the one you want to hit. Take big game hunting in my home state of NY.

Some counties are shotgun only. Most shotgun barrels only have a front bead which is most definitly a non-adjustable sight. A slug is a single projectile, and will only hit at one point of the target. therefore, if the bead is on the bullseye, and the slug hits a foot low, you can not adjust the sights. You have to adjust the shooter. Until last year, my county was a no rifle zone. I have hunted with the same shotgun for 25 years, and if I follow the bead to the kill zone, I will miss the deer, or wound it. Several boxes of slugs, and a sh!t load of range time tell me that in order to take a deer out at the shoulder, I have to aim for the elbow at 50 yards. Aim at the elbow, deer drops, game over. Aim at the shoulder, spine shot, or a miss, and potentailly long night spent tracking the deer, or it suffers.

Now, I have competed in several turkey shoots in my area, and have won my fair share, Most of the local ones still have a shotgun class and a rifle class. Smoothbore shotguns and slugs are a notoriously inaccurate combo. Open sights at 50 yards 2.5 in is good. My deer gun, a Mossberg 185d, Gives me a 1 3\4 inch group (3 shot) at 50 yards. I have used it to cut empty beer bottles off of fence rails at that distance, and can usually hit all 3 every time I try to. I have only missed 1 on 4 occaisions. Not bad for a smooth bore 20 gauge made in the 1940s, but the more important part of the equasion is the person behind the trigger.

If you lived closer, I would invite you up to the range to try this yourself. It might give you the evidence you need to recind you statement that a good shooter can not make up for an "inaccurate" gun. I mean no offense to you, and I hope you take no offense from this post, but I am not a profesional shooter. I shoot to do something more important than to win trophies, I shoot to feed my family. As an ethical hunter, I am obligated to give the animal the quickest, most humane death I can. If I have doubts about a shot in the woods, or at the range, I will not take it. I practice from every concievable angle and position I may encounter in the feild, with a handgun, rifle, bow, and shotgun out of respect for the animal.

As I said above, I mean you no offense, but I know I could present evidence that would change your view of accuracy, and on whether or not a pro shooter's equipment has to be sighted in perfectly.