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Old 11-29-2012, 01:31 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Viking View Post
I read about Ed McGivern years ago that when they tested his revolvers for accuracy they weren't all that accurate so it was his capabilities that made his shooting great.
Let's have a show of hands to see how many of you all believe this is the way things work.

Seriously, how many of you think that a shooter can make up for an inherently inaccurate firearm? I need to know the percentage of you who agree with this to determine whether this site is worth visiting again.

Please assure me that these kind of statements are the exception among the collective here. I'm not trying to be nasty, I just need to know that I'm reading the opinions of people that actually think logically.

All you have to do is give your opinion on the sentence quoted above.

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Old 11-29-2012, 04:06 AM   #72
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Let's have a show of hands to see how many of you all believe this is the way things work.

Seriously, how many of you think that a shooter can make up for an inherently inaccurate firearm? I need to know the percentage of you who agree with this to determine whether this site is worth visiting again.

Please assure me that these kind of statements are the exception among the collective here. I'm not trying to be nasty, I just need to know that I'm reading the opinions of people that actually think logically.

All you have to do is give your opinion on the sentence quoted above.

Blue1
Blue1. If you don't like the company around here, you are free to leave anytime you wish. I myself would pesonally miss having you around, you do make a pretty good devil's addvocate, and I enjoy most of your posts.

However I do belive the statement that you quoted. A firearm does not have to be extremely accurat to repatedly make "impossible" shots, It merely needs to be consistent. If you know your M1 shoots 1 inch high and 3\8 of an inch left at 50 yards, you should be able to compensate for that. A professional shooter like McGivern, the Topperwines, Tom Knapp, and others practice with their weapons pretty much daily, and can go through hundreds of thousands of rounds a year. With sending that much ammo down range comes knowledge of what bullet weight, powder types ang weights, primer types, and manufatures products work best. Along with this level of practice, comes muscle memory, technique, and trigger control. All of which are combined in an amazing and repeatable shot. That is why they are refered to as extreme marksmen. This training and practice starts, in most cases, at a young age, but not everyone gets to the point of being a shooting god. Some people are just better shots than others naturally. I class myself as an average shooter, and I am not ashamed when someone else outshoots me. I shake their hand, ask them how they practice, how they modified their bow or firearm, what the technique they used is, and I listen to what they tell me. That is how I learn, and how I sometimes get the opportunity to teach others. Humility will get you farther in life than anger, and it will get you in far less trouble.

As I said above, you can leave if you want to, but I kinda like having you around. Granted, it is in spite of the fact that you called me a liar, but we all have a right to our own opinions. If you want to fell more welcome on this forum, please try to be tactful when repling to the posts of the other members. Even when you think they are wrong. It will keep you from getting hit with the Ban Hammer.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:12 AM   #73
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Mea Culpa if Im wrong but how can your range be closed if its on your own property ? Is this a California thing ?
We grow and sell Christmas trees (among other crops) and don't shoot during the sales season because we can't control who is downrange at any given time when customers are present. Nothing to do with California.

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Didn't know there was a Viking n a VikingDad
Yeah, I think when I signed up I tried to use Viking (note that he has been a member since 2009 and I just found this place in 2011) but he had already taken it. I didn't know at the time that I would get this involved in the site. If anything I hijacked his username, or at least part of it. Sorry Viking.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:14 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Blue1 View Post
Let's have a show of hands to see how many of you all believe this is the way things work.

Seriously, how many of you think that a shooter can make up for an inherently inaccurate firearm? I need to know the percentage of you who agree with this to determine whether this site is worth visiting again.

Please assure me that these kind of statements are the exception among the collective here. I'm not trying to be nasty, I just need to know that I'm reading the opinions of people that actually think logically.

All you have to do is give your opinion on the sentence quoted above.

Blue1
I guess it would depend on how it was inaccurate. If it shot all over the place then it might be pretty hard to believe. But if it was a this thing shoots low and to the left and did it pretty consistently then sure, it can happen. I had a cheap RG 22 revo once that shot low and right all the time. I figured out how it shot and did OK with it. No one else could shoot it because they didn't know about it and when I told them it would take a while to figure it out. I was used to it and did pretty well. No trick shooting or anything but I could keep it on paper. It's like a gut in a pool hall that uses a house stick but being he uses it all the time can use it proficiently. It happens...No matter how illogical it sounds.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:15 AM   #75
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Blue1. If you don't like the company around here, you are free to leave anytime you wish. I myself would pesonally miss having you around, you do make a pretty good devil's addvocate, and I enjoy most of your posts.

However I do belive the statement that you quoted. A firearm does not have to be extremely accurat to repatedly make "impossible" shots, It merely needs to be consistent. If you know your M1 shoots 1 inch high and 3\8 of an inch left at 50 yards, you should be able to compensate for that. A professional shooter like McGivern, the Topperwines, Tom Knapp, and others practice with their weapons pretty much daily, and can go through hundreds of thousands of rounds a year. With sending that much ammo down range comes knowledge of what bullet weight, powder types ang weights, primer types, and manufatures products work best. Along with this level of practice, comes muscle memory, technique, and trigger control. All of which are combined in an amazing and repeatable shot. That is why they are refered to as extreme marksmen. This training and practice starts, in most cases, at a young age, but not everyone gets to the point of being a shooting god. Some people are just better shots than others naturally. I class myself as an average shooter, and I am not ashamed when someone else outshoots me. I shake their hand, ask them how they practice, how they modified their bow or firearm, what the technique they used is, and I listen to what they tell me. That is how I learn, and how I sometimes get the opportunity to teach others. Humility will get you farther in life than anger, and it will get you in far less trouble.

As I said above, you can leave if you want to, but I kinda like having you around. Granted, it is in spite of the fact that you called me a liar, but we all have a right to our own opinions. If you want to fell more welcome on this forum, please try to be tactful when repling to the posts of the other members. Even when you think they are wrong. It will keep you from getting hit with the Ban Hammer.
Yeah, what he said!
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:36 AM   #76
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Mea Culpa if Im wrong but how can your range be closed if its on your own property ? Is this a California thing ?

Didn't know there was a Viking n a VikingDad
Well I have no idea if we are related. I just turned a young 70 in October and don't know who is the elder of the Vikings. My grandparents on my dads' side came from Norway, not quite sure when but probably very early 1900's. I've been using Viking or viking for my screen name on numerous other sites.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:42 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Blue1

Let's have a show of hands to see how many of you all believe this is the way things work.

Seriously, how many of you think that a shooter can make up for an inherently inaccurate firearm? I need to know the percentage of you who agree with this to determine whether this site is worth visiting again.

Please assure me that these kind of statements are the exception among the collective here. I'm not trying to be nasty, I just need to know that I'm reading the opinions of people that actually think logically.

All you have to do is give your opinion on the sentence quoted above.

Blue1
Everyone knows a shooter can make up in skill, what a lousy gun lacks in inherent accuracy. I can make my shotgun patterns tighter by changing my grip.

Yeah.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:46 AM   #78
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Well I have no idea if we are related. I just turned a young 70 in October and don't know who is the elder of the Vikings. My grandparents on my dads' side came from Norway, not quite sure when but probably very early 1900's. I've been using Viking or viking for my screen name on numerous other sites.
Lets just day you have been around longer than I have and leave it at that, shall we?

My ancestors are from Norway, Denmark and Holland/Germany (the lines back then were a little unclear), my grandmother said that my grandfather was a "Hollander" but they met in northern Germany just inside of the border at the time.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:13 AM   #79
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Before anyone condemns how anyone else shoots they ought to read the story of Ed McGivern and his expertise as a shooter. He and Elmer Keith were friends. If one does a lot of shooting with one pistol or revolver over the years you get the feel of it and can often do some pretty amazing shots. I have a friend that thinks I'm a really good shooter because of some of the shots I've done with his firearms but I don't think I'm really all that good. That being said there have been a few out of the holster with no aim shots that really surprised me. Could I repeat some of those shots? Maybe not, could have just been a fluke. But on the other hand I have a Stoeger Cougar 40 that is probably the most accurate semi auto I've owned other than the Ruger MK I. The Cougar shoots where I point it, never had a handgun that would do that for me. Even the Redhawk I've owned for over 20 years couldn't do that. The reality of shooting is if a handgun feels good in your hands, hits where you aim it consistantly and you practice, practice, practice to the point that it feels like an extension of your body then there is no reason you can't do shots like danf_fl did.

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Old 11-29-2012, 06:29 AM   #80
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Thinking about handguns that just weren't all that accurate, my brother-in-law had an old worn out 45 Colt 1911 A1 that firing pin retainer would sometime slide down but shooting it in an ensilage pit I could hit a pop can consistantly at 60 yards. I always like the fit and feel of 1911's, the only reason I don't own one now is that when I got my CCW 45ACP ammo was just not available, on the other hand because so many of the LEO's in this area carry 40 cal weapons the 40 S&W ammo was always on the shelves. Now on the other side of the coin I have an XDm 40 that I just have not done well with, it just doesn't seem to feel all that good in my hands. Perhaps if I shot it regularly I'd get better with it but the out of box accuracy of the Cougar has me spoiled.

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