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Old 11-21-2012, 01:54 AM   #21
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The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

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Old 11-21-2012, 09:13 AM   #22
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The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

Blue1
Using a .38 or 9mm (.357 diameter) you have approximately 3/4" play side to side (.357 X 2 = .714, 3/4" = .75"). With a .45, almost an inch.
Look at the second video, and you will see that the first two shots were very close together (vertical was longer than the horizontal), but either shot would break a pencil held vertically.

When you are at the range, have you ever had two bullet holes touching each other?
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #23
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I'm trying to say I can't believe no one else calls anybody out on BS like this, geez.

This is like the cowboy movie where someone pulls out an old, abused, never cleaned .45 Colt after drinking for an hour in the saloon and shoots a cowboy off a horse galloping away at full speed 100 yards away one-handed.

But it's a piece of cake if you turn the cigarette so it's vertical

Blue1
I could probably do the same thing with my 4" S&W Mod 19. I shoot the brass on spent 12 ga rounds at 25 yards all the time. Single action two hand grip, but no rest. Of course I have to use my "computer" glasses to get a clear picture of the front sight, but it's not that difficult.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:16 PM   #24
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Let me get this straight...you are retired, a beer drinker, and you hit a cigarette at 25 yards shooting a handgun freehand?

Blue1
I believe Dan's story. I have seen some amazing shooting out of Stalkingbear in Kentucky. He has some incredible accuracy. Dan isn't the type to make up a story for the adulations.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #25
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It can be done. When I was young and naïve, having no idea what was considered a long distance for the shot I was taking, My dad used to set up shots like this for me all the time. No cigarets though. He never said anything about the distance and it wasn't until I heard him bragging to his friends about the distance of my shots that I knew it was a hard shot. I was young, great eye sight, and full of confidence. I have tried those same shots as an adult and when I do make it luck probably plays a big roll. Now one of my eyes is set for distance and the other for reading and I KNOW it's a hard shot.
I guess all I'm saying is it can be done with some skill, belief, and luck.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue1 View Post
The guy with the Kimber was shooting at 16 yards, not 25.

I think these things happen on occasion, but luck is the driving factor. I believe factory ammo would group larger than the width of a pencil at 25 yards, so how can one be more accurate than the ammos inherent repeatability allows? Especially from a semi-auto, which is less accurate than a quality revolver.

Blue1
I was with ya Blue until you came out w the revolver > auto accuracy comment. I find that harder to believe than a lucky shot at 25 yds. I've seen people shoot golf balls w handguns - no idea what they are sighting on - personally, I find it very difficult to hit what I can not see. But if I have a spotter, I can dial it in some.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #27
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I'm trying to say I can't believe no one else calls anybody out on BS like this, geez.
I do, good on you, completely agree.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #28
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I was with ya Blue until you came out w the revolver > auto accuracy comment. I find that harder to believe than a lucky shot at 25 yds.
Revolvers are definitely more accurate than semi-autos of the same barrel length.

Revolver barrels are fixed, with sights fixed on the barrel. Semi-auto barrels have to lock up, and the sights are not on the barrel, they are on the slide. The difference in accuracy versus the revolver grows larger as both guns wear though use.

Sight radius is generally a little longer on revolvers as well, again given same length barrels.

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:16 PM   #29
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I do, good on you, completely agree.
Are you not the guy who was claiming in another thread to split cards? Why should everyone believe that you can do that, but Dan cannot hit a cigarette? If I have you confused with someone else, I apologize in advance.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:03 PM   #30
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Custom shops often number the cylinder chambers because there is often one or two which open up the group considerably. Not necessary on autos. I do agree w sight radius so we should try to keep barrel length similar.

I've been watching 22 bullseye at my club and what little I could find of coverage at-the Olympics. Everyone uses autos - modified Rugers at my club n Hammerli at Olympics. No revolvers were even represented. If the platform has an innate competitive advantage, why doesn't it dominate ?

This question was A hot topic way back when I was a kid along w the reliability question. We can solve this debate the old fashioned way - at the range. Pick a Mod, preferably one who owns and likes to shoot revolvers. I'll pick one as well - C3 w 1911 of his choice or maybe his BHP ? His call.

Let the Mods pick their own ammo - slow fire at 50' or w you prefer 25 yds ? We may have to start our own thread to avoid completely hi-jacking this one.

In any event, an old fashioned revolver vs auto shoot out should be interesting and generate some talking points - why we have a forum to bring these & other topics to light.

No sour grapes - if the Mods agree to shoot, the least we can do is to agree to live w the results - whatever they may be.

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