[locutus]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

I shoot 124 gr Nato FMJ winchester rangers, a round developed for law enforcement. The FBI conducted a study after the events of the North Hollywood Bank robbery. Before the robbery turned into a shoot out a lone plain clothes officer shot one of robbers in the shoulder with a 380 HP were he had no body armor. One of the conclusions of the study was if the detective had his 380 loaded with FMJ ammo the ensuing shoot out would have only been with one bank robber. That speaks volumes for the benefits of adequate penetration.

.

Actually, all 9MM FMJ ammo was developed for the military. That's why they call it 9 MM NATO.

I am not aware of any LE agency, at least in this part of the country that allows it. It does minimum damage with grossly excessive penetration.

Most LE agencies today using 9MM use the Winchester Ranger "T" 127 grain +P+ JHP. That's what I was issued for duty ammo.

But LE needs are totally different from apartment needs. The 9BPLE +P+ 115 grainers will give more than adequate penetration for 99.9 percent of non-LE use. Home defense does not mean shooting through car doors or windshields. That's what the 127 +P+ were designed for.

Light hollow points give a good balance between adequate penetration and excessive penetration for home/personal defense..

[Old_Crow]

Actually NATO is the load specification. NATO loads have more powder than ammo loaded to SAAMI/ANSI specifications. Not quite as much powder a +P load. Be careful don't blow up your gun!

[GlockRenegade]

Originally Posted by locutus

Actually, all 9MM FMJ ammo was developed for the military. That's why they call it 9 MM NATO.

I am not aware of any LE agency, at least in this part of the country that allows it. It does minimum damage with grossly excessive penetration.

Most LE agencies today using 9MM use the Winchester Ranger "T" 127 grain +P+ JHP. That's what I was issued for duty ammo.

But LE needs are totally different from apartment needs. The 9BPLE +P+ 115 grainers will give more than adequate penetration for 99.9 percent of non-LE use. Home defense does not mean shooting through car doors or windshields. That's what the 127 +P+ were designed for.

Light hollow points give a good balance between adequate penetration and excessive penetration for home/personal defense..

Winchester whitebox NATO 124gr only 9mm ammo ive ever seen with NATO on it

[Old_Crow]

Here is an article that explains NATO specifications much better than I can.
http://gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/

Here is the Winchester ranger ammo. Not a bad price I might order 500 rounds.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500rd-9mm-nato-winchester-ranger-124-grain-fmj-p-ra9124n-ammo

[gladesbassin]

These are what's loaded in my 9mm firearms







And these in my .40 cal 

[Old_Crow]

Oh I forgot CDNN carries the rangers as well

[gladesbassin]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

Oh I forgot CDNN carries the rangers as well

The rangers replaced the black talons right? and now the pdx1's are pretty much the same

[Old_Crow]

Originally Posted by gladesbassin

The rangers replaced the black talons right? and now the pdx1's are pretty much the same

Not to my knowledge. Rangers have always been their own entity.

[WebleyFosbery38]

How to survive living in an apartment? Camera outside in the hall, Big thick Steel Door with deep Screws, lots of locks, deadbolts and slide-bolts, a steel bar across it and big dogs! City/ Apartment dwelling is like fish living in a barrel just waiting for the cat! Thats just my opinion as a Redneck Country Boy, get out of the cage before its too late!

[locutus]

Originally Posted by GlockRenegade

Winchester whitebox NATO 124gr only 9mm ammo ive ever seen with NATO on it

Any ammo with a cross inside a circle on the head stamp is NATO (STANAG) spec.