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Old 09-05-2011, 03:21 AM   #11
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Again, capacity. A 1911 is a hallmark-one of the finest (if not the finest) handguns ever devised. However, few soldiers are going to want to carry so many mags, and less will want to change them every 8 rounds. If you end up pulling your side arm, you are already in big trouble.

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Old 09-05-2011, 04:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pubthumper View Post
Again, capacity. A 1911 is a hallmark-one of the finest (if not the finest) handguns ever devised. However, few soldiers are going to want to carry so many mags, and less will want to change them every 8 rounds. If you end up pulling your side arm, you are already in big trouble.
So round count makes up for poor accuracy?

If you are a lousy shot what will extra rounds do? (other than allow your opponent to count the misses)

In the Guru's own words:
“It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce's answer was, "Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot." The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine.” - Col Cooper
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:12 AM   #13
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Missed shots in the threat's direction prevent them from taking aimed shots in your direction. If I'm 10 feet away from my escape and have already expended 6 rounds of my one magazine, I like knowing I've got another 10 rounds to toss in the enemy's direction so they can't hit me while I make my break for that door (or tank or whatever).

It is also my understanding that soldiers aren't nearly as well-trained with sidearms as they are with rifles. I mean, the way I've heard some soldiers talk about their handguns, it's almost like an afterthought. Hell, that some soldiers are leaving them back at the barracks to save that 3lbs of weight tells you they aren't seen as vital equipment. So, couple likely mediocre shot-placement with unfortunately-limited ammunition and you get lots of failures to stop with the 9mm.

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Old 09-05-2011, 04:20 AM   #14
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I have NEVER understood the geneva convention

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Old 09-05-2011, 04:24 AM   #15
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I have NEVER understood the geneva convention
I think it's because leaders were probably imagining where the developments in technology could go, and no leaders wanted to see their solders getting poisoned or mutilated or whatever they thought would happen.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by pubthumper View Post
Again, capacity. A 1911 is a hallmark-one of the finest (if not the finest) handguns ever devised. However, few soldiers are going to want to carry so many mags, and less will want to change them every 8 rounds. If you end up pulling your side arm, you are already in big trouble.
Yeah, well, you played that fiddle too long. The Para Super Hawg not only has

14+1 capacity, it has a 6" barrel, for increased accuracy and muzzle

velocity. All in the Venerable 1911 --45ACP .
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:35 PM   #17
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I would think there is a difference between an officer having to pull their sidearm because his unit, squad, company, whatever, is surrounded and being overrun by an enemy that is wearing all sorts of combat clothing; and a ATM machine, convenience store, liquor store holdup, etc., by someone wearing street clothing.

I think maybe there is a difference is mission relevant to caliber and capacity.

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Old 09-05-2011, 01:15 PM   #18
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Yeah, well, you played that fiddle too long. The Para Super Hawg not only has

14+1 capacity, it has a 6" barrel, for increased accuracy and muzzle

velocity. All in the Venerable 1911 --45ACP .
What it doesn't have is 100 years of proven superior firepower. You can experiment with all kinds of gimmic guns, but if you want reliable, the 1911 is the way to go.

If you need 13 rounds to defend yourself, you need a damn rifle. If you need a 6" barrel to shoot at 7 yards, you need a desk job.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:01 PM   #19
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@canebrake, of course not, but in combat would you not choose the weapon with a higher capacity? As was stated by someone else, it is possible to need to suppress an enemy position to advance to better cover, ect. Not every round you fire will hit what you intend it to, especially if you are being shot at. Let me "play that fiddle" one last time, as a combat weapon, the 1911 lacks in the area of capacity. The Para mentioned is a nice gun, but better options exist for military applications, in my view.

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Old 09-05-2011, 02:51 PM   #20
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If you need 13 rounds to defend yourself, you need a damn rifle. If you need a 6" barrel to shoot at 7 yards, you need a desk job.
The entire idea of the sidearm is for if a rifle is not available. Nobody would ever be halfway through a 1911 mag in a desparate fight for his life and think "I'm sure glad I've only got 4 rounds left instead of 9, because that would be silly."
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