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Old 05-12-2009, 02:17 AM   #11
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In my unit, you could still drop and push.

That's how the RED HORSE does things.



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Old 05-12-2009, 03:41 AM   #12
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You can't make me do that, I'm in the Air Force, no really even TI's(Training Instructor for those who don't know) can't make basic trainees do that. Hell I hear they even have handed out "Time-out" cards to the trainees in recent years. Most punishment I ever saw was a pulled 341 or an LOC. Oh no, paperwork how horrible!

-Disclaimer, there are a few jobs in the USAF that only take people who would qualify as easily for the Seals or any other SF team out there.
Not true. TIs can still make trainees do pushups. I'm friends with a few TIs and while there are rules for how to do it, its still alowed. The time-out cards is an urban myth.

Also, ask anyone who's gone through PJ and CCT indoc and see if they say that they "easily" qualified for it.

Also, I've done close to 100 convoys in a 6 month deployment, we're pretty much f'd. Yay for ILOs. I miss it so much.

Oh and Sgt, I'd kill to go to the HORSE in one of the Service's slots, but nooooooo somehow that doesn't happen.


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Old 05-12-2009, 11:07 AM   #13
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The time-out cards is an urban myth.

Also, ask anyone who's gone through PJ and CCT indoc and see if they say that they "easily" qualified for it.
Glad to hear the time-out cards are just legends.

I'm agreeing with you about PJ, CCT and I would think TACP would be up there to. I'm saying they are not easy to qualify for, just that the quality of people that make it through are on par and could hang with the Navy Seals or any other Special Forces teams out there.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:25 AM   #14
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-Disclaimer, there are a few jobs in the USAF that only take people who would qualify as easily for the Seals or any other SF team out there.
I dunno know about that. I don't want no part of being called a pajama oh I am sorry a PJ. LOL meet a few of them. They wern't anything special. Hooked up with 2 at the gym once on Ft. Hood they tried to hang with our (My cousin and I) work out. It was only 2 hours in the weight room then an 8 mile run. The run took us up a nice tall hill out side of post for the last 1.5 miles out then it was a 20 minute gut buster (Nothing but crunches sit ups and other evil ab exercises) then back down the hill and run back to the gym.

Good lord I can't believe I used to be able to do that.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:29 PM   #15
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Oh come on Point blank range is not 25 yards.

you are comparing apple and cannons here.

a 9mm is made for close combat ie 0 to 25m

The 556 is not meant to do that. Is it used well yes why because it works.

Now basing this totally on velocity and energy. The 556 is going to do more damage because it is a bullet that is moving at a much higher velocity. at the range you indicated point blank which really is not 25m (That is a different thread all together). The bullet may or may not come apart on the 556 at this velocity and range.

The 9mm in the 115gr fmj is not going to come apart and is not going to do much damage at 25m.

A lot of this also depends on what the douche bag getting shot is wearing as well. body armour will not stop the 556 but it will stop the 9mm

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Old 05-13-2009, 07:05 PM   #16
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The "tumbling" was solved in the 1970's by increasing the rate of twist. Everyone who shoots a modern AR-15 knows it drills perfect holes at all ranges.
I was referring to the old misconception based on the fact that the 5.56 bullet tends to tumble within a soft target. People actually believed the bullet was intentionally designed to tumble in air, which somehow was supposed to make it more accurate or otherwise more deadly.

But yeah, it was just a joke, heh.
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:07 PM   #17
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No arguement. Anyone who claims 9mil is plain wrong.

Bullets traveling over 2900 fps, when hitting soft tissue, cause a shockwave in the liquid substrate of the tissue. Which inherently causes as much damage as the bullet. That explains how I killed a doe with very low gutshot with a 150gr Hornady out of my 7mm mag. She died in less than 3 minutes die to the shock. (lost the Z on my scope is why)


Try that with a .30-30 or -06. That deer will live for a day or better.

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Old 05-16-2009, 09:32 PM   #18
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And WHAT, may we ask, are you doing with NON-ISSUED AMMUNITION in your Beretta????

Last time I looked, issue ammunition was FULL METAL JACKETED 9mm.

And there IS no dead,deader,deadest. Either one at point blank range would be lethal. But for sake of argument, the 5.56 has more energy (LOTS more) and would be more destructive of the corpse you are mutilating.

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Old 05-16-2009, 11:37 PM   #19
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And WHAT, may we ask, are you doing with NON-ISSUED AMMUNITION in your Beretta????

Last time I looked, issue ammunition was FULL METAL JACKETED 9mm.

And there IS no dead,deader,deadest. Either one at point blank range would be lethal. But for sake of argument, the 5.56 has more energy (LOTS more) and would be more destructive of the corpse you are mutilating.
If I remember right (any Air Force cop on the site can correct me if I'm wrong) but I thought there were specific groups that were issued hollow points with their M-9s instead of FMJ. Mainly OSI and cops doing LE duties. I'll try and find the relevant AFIs tomorrow at work.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:18 AM   #20
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All the AF MP's I knew carried HP ammo in the states and they if they went over seas or into combat they had to use FMJ.



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