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Old 02-09-2012, 12:28 PM   #21
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One shot stop is misleading at best. Shoot a badguy in the gut with a 22lr. He finishes murdering you then dies three days later. One shot and he stopped...

Better data would be how effective a cartridge is at stopping agression. That however is totally dependent on circumstance and not quantifiable. The most important factor is picking a handgun with the largest cartridge you can shoot quickly and accurately.

Self defense shootings arent taking one well aimed shot and asking the bad guy to stop. Its a rapid violent series of shots being fired in haste and likely fear and panic from both sides.

Its most important to pick a gun you can afford to become highly proficient with. The 357 sig is a good cartridge but if your not a reloader its prohibitively expensive for lots of practice. Not practicing is almost as bad as not carrying one at all.

Not practicing leads to self inflicted gunshot wounds by inexperience. It leads to shots going wildly astray and innocent people getting injured. I practice so that if gods forbid i ever have to use mine the rounds i launch are more liekly to end up in the intended badguy and not some innocent third party down range

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Old 02-09-2012, 01:41 PM   #22
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I think you misunderstand "one shot stop", you don't shoot once and ask the bad guy to stop, it's when you shoot him once and he STOPS. In your 22lr scenario this is not a stop as he continues to do harm. You missed the whole point of the one shot stop. I agree with almost everything else you said though. While .357SIG is more expensive than some other ammo, it's not "prohibitivly" expensive if you shop a little. You're 100% right about practice.

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Old 02-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #23
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I do not believe Jon was incorrect about "one stop shots" His 22 lr to the gut scenario, the BG DID stop after being shot and then died 3 days later. That IS a one shot stop.

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Old 02-09-2012, 04:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
I think you misunderstand "one shot stop", you don't shoot once and ask the bad guy to stop, it's when you shoot him once and he STOPS. In your 22lr scenario this is not a stop as he continues to do harm. You missed the whole point of the one shot stop. I agree with almost everything else you said though. While .357SIG is more expensive than some other ammo, it's not "prohibitivly" expensive if you shop a little. You're 100% right about practice.
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I do not believe Jon was incorrect about "one stop shots" His 22 lr to the gut scenario, the BG DID stop after being shot and then died 3 days later. That IS a one shot stop.
I was illustrating the mindset that a person can get into that can lead to disaster. If your expecting your firearm to stop a badguy in one shot your not likely to continue shooting until the threat stops.

I just believe one shot stop is not a good way to think about handgun effectiveness. It creates an incorrect subconcious expectation.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #25
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I agree to that and if I'm ever in that horrible situation, I train to keep shooting. One stop shot means that the perp is stopped from any and all aggression after receiving one shot. In other words he's put out of action by one shot immediately or within a few seconds not days hours or even minutes. I thought this was understood in the firearms community but I guess not. Anyone relying on a .22lr for protection should especially be taught to repeatedly shoot because one shot will not stop an aggressor immediately.

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Old 02-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #26
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Handguns are lousy man stoppers. To count on one shot ending the problem is a BIG mistake. I will not knowingly bring a handgun to a gun fight. I will bring a shot gun or rifle. IF (and that is a big if) one shot stops the fight, fine. IF the first shot actualy hits the target. IF the first shot hits a vital enough area to stop the fight. IF the first shot penetrates deeply enough to reach that vital area AND do sufficient damage to stop the fight. There are a bunch of ifs there. Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. If that means an entire magazine full, fine. Shooting a number of rounds and re-assess is a good idea. Whether that is one, two, three or more is up to you.

You will have to justify each round fired. If all strike center mass on the front side of the body, great. Chances are the BG will not stand still while you are shooting him. Some will inevitably strike at weird angles or in the back. Does not make them wrong. Any fired directly down into the BG will not be looked upon well.

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Old 02-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #27
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Ive been trained that you "shoot to stop the action", that interperates to that you continue firing until the threat is unable to continue his actions. I would never just shoot once, then assess the BGs ability to continue,then shoot again. You should continue firing until the threat is down, incapacitated,and unable to continue his actions against you. It may take 1 round or it may take 6 rounds, nobody knows.

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWray
Here is another example

<img src="http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38877"/>
These are very cool...except the second picture don't tell yoy what kind of bullet it is...where did you get em
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayscat44

These are very cool...except the second picture don't tell yoy what kind of bullet it is...where did you get em
I googled .357sig vs .357mag and thats what it gave me
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:36 AM   #30
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I have a Sig 226 in 357 Sig It is my primary carry weapon. I have lots of other choices from .22 to .45 but prefer the 357 Sig

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