[Tony Soprano]

.22 LR pistols are small, easily concealed, have a speed of 900 to 1300 fps, more then any .45, are easy to aim, have quick target aquisition, a quick and accuate grip, and are perfect for self defense. 3 to 5 rounds of .22 LR in the chest of any attacker will ruin an attack. In self defense one must teach confidence, peace of mind, ways to carry and conceal, grip, target acquistion, and so on. Take a poll. How many cops nationwide carry a 45 or 9 off duty? many, perhaps even most grab a .22, .380. .38 and stuff in in the waist band or pocket.

[allmons]

I have never felt "under gunned" with a .22. In fact, I prefer a .22 to a .25 ANY day. Small, concealable and deadly. The ammunition is very affordable so that extensive practice makes sense. It's an old statement, but still very true - better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .45.

For a very few people, recoil "flinch" is a real problem. The .22 resolves that problem as well.

[cnorman18]

I agree that a .22 is better than a rock or a sharp stick; but there are some drawbacks, besides the obvious stopping power problem. .22s are more susceptible to moisture and other damage; they have more frequent misfires than any centerfire round, and in autos have more frequent jams (and what would be the point of carrying a .22 revolver? .38s are no bigger).

The main advantage of a .25 over a .22 is feeding reliability, and that's why they're still selling. They can also be made much smaller; in pre-CCW days here in Texas, I often carried a Baby Browning knockoff, and had no fear of being caught with it. Did I feel underarmed? Hell, yes; but I wasn't UNarmed, and that counts for a lot.

.22s are wonderful guns; they're great fun, cheap to shoot, make less noise and generate less recoil than any other gun. For practice and recreational shooting, they're hard to beat. But for defense, in my opinion, a .380 loaded with Cor-Bon hollowpoints is a minimum.

If you want to use a .22 for defense, go for it; but buy a quality gun, shoot it till you know it'll work every single time, and stuff it with clean, new, high-quality, high velocity ammunition. Solid points are better than hollowpoints in a .22; you need penetration, not expansion.

And practice till you can hit where it counts every time. Of course, that's good advice with any gun.

[allmons]

Agree with most of it - still can't like a .25. I've dug too many of the bullets out from under the skin or scalp with little damage to the victim. But I confess that I, too, occasionally carried a baby browning clone. And you are completely correct - any weapon is better than none!

[Pounce]

Originally Posted by cnorman18

I agree that a .22 is better than a rock or a sharp stick; but there are some drawbacks, besides the obvious stopping power problem. .22s are more susceptible to moisture and other damage; they have more frequent misfires than any centerfire round, and in autos have more frequent jams (and what would be the point of carrying a .22 revolver? .38s are no bigger).

The main advantage of a .25 over a .22 is feeding reliability, and that's why they're still selling. They can also be made much smaller; in pre-CCW days here in Texas, I often carried a Baby Browning knockoff, and had no fear of being caught with it. Did I feel underarmed? Hell, yes; but I wasn't UNarmed, and that counts for a lot.

.22s are wonderful guns; they're great fun, cheap to shoot, make less noise and generate less recoil than any other gun. For practice and recreational shooting, they're hard to beat. But for defense, in my opinion, a .380 loaded with Cor-Bon hollowpoints is a minimum.

If you want to use a .22 for defense, go for it; but buy a quality gun, shoot it till you know it'll work every single time, and stuff it with clean, new, high-quality, high velocity ammunition. Solid points are better than hollowpoints in a .22; you need penetration, not expansion.

And practice till you can hit where it counts every time. Of course, that's good advice with any gun.

I'm in total agreement with the above.

[robocop10mm]

The priming compound in a rimfire is prone to damage from drying out and vibration/shock. That is the cause for most rimfire misfires. I do not feel adequately armed with anything less than a .380. I have 2 .22's and a .32 ACP but would not consider carrying one for defense.

[pioneer461]

Yo Tony. A twenty-two may be good for a close-up hit in a skull, but to stop a charging 220 pound attacker doped up on speed, fuggetaboutit.

I was a cop for about 30 years and still on the job now in a different roll, but I've NEVER known a cop who carried a .22 LR as backup, or off duty. I knew a guy who carried a .32 once, but as a general rule you won't find a copper carrying anything less than a .380.

In San Diego, in the early 70's, a few county mounties and city cops (me included) carried High Standard .22 magnum derringers as back-up, but that's as close as it came to a .22 LR. Don't know of any who actually used them.

[Tony Soprano]

Originally Posted by pioneer461

Yo Tony. A twenty-two may be good for a close-up hit in a skull, but to stop a charging 220 pound attacker doped up on speed, fuggetaboutit.

I was a cop for about 30 years and still on the job now in a different roll, but I've NEVER known a cop who carried a .22 LR as backup, or off duty. I knew a guy who carried a .32 once, but as a general rule you won't find a copper carrying anything less than a .380.

In San Diego, in the early 70's, a few county mounties and city cops (me included) carried High Standard .22 magnum derringers as back-up, but that's as close as it came to a .22 LR. Don't know of any who actually used them.

I appreciate your service to our country and to your community,I'm not talking about knock down force,I'm just stating .22LR are misunderstood handguns,I have a friend that is a cop in my hometown for over 16 years,he said that over 50% of all murders in our area is from a single shot .22 round,he also told me stories of him unloading his Glock into an attacker's chest and the drugged up crazy idiot falling at his feet,I've heard plenty of them stories too.He carries a .32 as his backup,remember I'm just saying they are misunderstood

[pioneer461]

You are right. They certainly are misunderstood. Keep in mind however, while they may account for many deaths (not over 50% in my experience, but I'll take your friend's word for it) any caliber gun will cause someone to eventually bleed out.

I'm a big fan of .22LR and shoot them often. I have a 10/22 that I have invested way too much money on , a SigArms Mosquito pistol, a Marlin model 60, and an antique Iver Johnson 8 shot revolver. Now with ammo prices skyrocketing, I shoot more .22 lately than the other calibers. They can be accurate target, survival and hunting arms, as well as tactical uses. The SWAT team at my alma mater PD has a 10/22 they use for taking out street lights, etc. From what I understand, the Mafia used to use .22's a lot for hits, but they had to be up close and personal. Twenty-twos are easy to hide, easy to silence, and the bullets deform easily making them difficult to match. I just completed reading a novel about two US Army snipers in Romania, using a 10/22 as a sniping tool to kill terrorists and the author made a pretty convincing case for it.

When I was a firearms instructor in the military, we worked with a classified Marine Corps unit, to develop a suppressed, full auto .22 cal pistol for covert operations. (I don't know if it was finally adopted. It was classified and I did not have a need to know.)

Not to mention the historical significance of the humble .22:

"In 1856 Smith & Wesson formed their second partnership to produce a small revolver designed to fire the Rimfire cartridge they patented in August of 1854. This revolver was the first successful fully self-contained cartridge revolver available in the world." The .22.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by allmons

I have never felt "under gunned" with a .22. In fact, I prefer a .22 to a .25 ANY day. Small, concealable and deadly. The ammunition is very affordable so that extensive practice makes sense. It's an old statement, but still very true - better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .45.

For a very few people, recoil "flinch" is a real problem. The .22 resolves that problem as well.

Having been shot with a 22, I suggest you try something a bit bigger.

Doc