Michigan CPL Opinions
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Michigan CPL Opinions


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Old 02-26-2014, 05:53 PM   #1
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Default Michigan CPL Opinions

I been putting off getting my ccw out of fear of denial despite countless people telling me that they don't think I would be denied. Here's the deal, Michigan's cpl application says that you cannot have a mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether you are receiving treatment for that illness or not. Michigan does not define mental illness or put labels on what you can or can't have in order to get a cpl, it only defines a mental illness as such

"a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to, clinical depression."

Ok, I have a couple of anxiety disorders(ocd and social fear) which are minor, but I do receive disability for them, now one could argue that this impairment could fit in with the portion of the definition that says "or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life" -because i'm not working, yet on the other hand I am pretty much normal, I have a driver's license, I am sane, I buy guns all the time and pass the NICS check a couple of times a year, and I even have sole custody of one of my children and joint of the other. My buddy says he called the police dept and told them about my situation and that they said to check "no" on the mental illness question because they are only looking to deny the people that are psychotic killers, but have a letter ready to explain my disorders. They said that it's all interpretation and that I am not lying if I say no, that if something comes up it's that I misunderstood what they meant(because I kind of am misunderstanding the definition) and that I won't get into trouble if something comes up because misunderstanding questions happens all the time. I am just not sure about it all or to trust the police that they know what they are talking about. I am pretty sure if I checked no that it would go through since I have no mental health records in the court system and my background is clean hence why I buy guns all the time, but I am also terrified of a perjury change if they think I was lying. What would you all do if you were me?
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:58 PM   #2
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What is the exact wording of the application?

better judged by twelve than carried by six.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman13 View Post
What is the exact wording of the application?

better judged by twelve than carried by six.
"must not have a mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether you are receiving treatment for that illness or not"

that's the exact wording on the app, they don't define mental illness on the app though, but Michigan law defines it as :"a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to, clinical depression."
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:46 PM   #4
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Interesting wording. Most places required that you be hospitalized to be denied. The way it's worded you could be being treated for an illness but not be mentally ill. Your best bet is to consult an attorney.

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Old 02-26-2014, 07:23 PM   #5
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Interesting wording. Most places required that you be hospitalized to be denied. The way it's worded you could be being treated for an illness but not be mentally ill. Your best bet is to consult an attorney.

better judged by twelve than carried by six.
That's the thing that always confused me too, most states more or less copy federal gun forms in their ccw applications such as in involuntary hospitalizations and crimes found not guilty by reason of insanity etc, but Michigan just half hazardly throws in that you can't even have a mental illness. It just seems so weird that in a state that requires a deeper background check and registration to even buy a handgun(in which I had to do to get all my handguns) that they would say no on a shall issue carry permit.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:35 PM   #6
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And another thing that gets me, is that even if they could pinpoint that my conditions could be defined in some was as mental illness in the mental illness definition, there are also the words "substantial" and "significantly"..Even if I am "impaired" in some fashion, how substantial is it and how significantly does it effect me? And what exactly is "ordinary" when it comes to the demands of life? No one is ordinary! They make this definition so vague that just about anyone could truthfully wiggle around it no matter what you have.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:03 PM   #7
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Go to the MI Gun Owners forum, legal Beagle Section and post your question. Several very qualified attorneys donate their time in supporting the forum.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:27 AM   #8
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Talk to a lawyer. This is too complex for anyone else.
The issue has impacted me as a MI resident married to a bipolar phobic woman. We decided not to even apply for her CPL.
If I was a betting man, if you get government assistance because of your psychological condition, then it will disqualify you from getting a CPL.


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Old 01-29-2015, 04:55 PM   #9
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There's a new bill that looks like it could pass that would be good for me. It's mostly about stopping ccw licensing boards and transferring the process to the court system etc, people don't like it for the most part, but for me however, they changed the mental health clause from this:

The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment for that illness. to this:

The applicant does not have a diagnosed DIAGNOSIS OF mental
illness THAT INCLUDES AN ASSESSMENT THAT THE INDIVIDUAL PRESENTS A
DANGER TO HIMSELF OR HERSELF OR TO ANOTHER at the time the
application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment for that illness.


So basically, as the law sits now, I am denied because I fit the their definition of mental illness with getting disability for the OCD, but later this year, I will not fit that definition and may get my ccw because I have never been a danger to myself and others ( I have owned guns for years and years). Yet again Michigan never fails to have the weirdest legislature in the country.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:18 PM   #10
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If your not screwed now then you probably will be when the Libturds get done, consult a lawyer and let us know how that turns out.
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