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so who are these 14 invalid instructors


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Old 02-11-2014, 01:48 PM   #11
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The fact that it doesn't get much bigger than that.
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:40 PM   #12
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This is one of those slippery slope things.

I want to continue to have my right to buy a gun and give it to my wife, grandchildren, son, etc.

Here is Washington State (now run by democrats, but still has great gun rights) we will voting on I-594, titled "BackGround Check".

The argument above (gangs/straw buyers....etc) is going to be used to restrict my rights.
In the end, if they can't straw buy, they will steal without paperwork.

I would rather that they straw buy from an FFL and leave the paper trail. Pretty unusual way of looking at it huh?

Illinois is going to struggle with it's fool laws. Washington is working on it.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:41 PM   #13
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Just look at illinois. Laws against straw purhcases do not stop gang bangers from buying guns. Gang Banger wants glock. Gang Banger instructs girlfriend who has no criminal record to buy glock. Girlfriend passes back ground check. Gives glock to gang banger. If girlfriend is smart, which we know she isn't because she is straw purchasing, she will report it stolen.


Laws only infringe on the law abiding since the criminals will always find a way to get around the laws. How will another law or another background check stop that process from happening? It won't.

I hope your I 594 does not pass.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:13 AM   #14
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Just look at illinois. Laws against straw purhcases do not stop gang bangers from buying guns. Gang Banger wants glock. Gang Banger instructs girlfriend who has no criminal record to buy glock. Girlfriend passes back ground check. Gives glock to gang banger. If girlfriend is smart, which we know she isn't because she is straw purchasing, she will report it stolen.


Laws only infringe on the law abiding since the criminals will always find a way to get around the laws. How will another law or another background check stop that process from happening? It won't.

I hope your I 594 does not pass.
the thing is gang bangers using the straw purchase method of buying guns isn't anything new. they have been doing it for many years now. even passing tougher gun laws in regards to a background check are not going to stop the gang bangers or criminals from getting guns.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:20 AM   #15
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WOW slightly looser requirements to get a CHL then in Oregon.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:42 AM   #16
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I can see how gangbangers who have the ability to so legally would seek to obtain a CCW, but I cannot see why they would necessarily want to become instructors. Even if they instruct fellow gangbangers on CCW if they have a record they will not obtain said CCW. Or am I completely off base?

If a gangbanger has a CCW and uses his legally carried gun to return fire in a drive-by (or perhaps he does a drive-by and then reports it as he was returning fire and defending himself) then he may get away with it. Not so if he is carrying illegally.

Now there was no attached story on the OP so I am working without a net, but what if a guy has a string of arrests but has never been convicted of any crime because, say, he has the same name as a notorious criminal? Or maybe he was implicated in a felony but the charges were dropped?

Innocent till proven guilty should rule the day.

On a related note, how many people are charged for attempting to illegally purchase firearms every year? As I understand it if a person is denied they just walk away.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:26 AM   #17
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I can see how gangbangers who have the ability to so legally would seek to obtain a CCW, but I cannot see why they would necessarily want to become instructors. Even if they instruct fellow gangbangers on CCW if they have a record they will not obtain said CCW. Or am I completely off base?

If a gangbanger has a CCW and uses his legally carried gun to return fire in a drive-by (or perhaps he does a drive-by and then reports it as he was returning fire and defending himself) then he may get away with it. Not so if he is carrying illegally.

Now there was no attached story on the OP so I am working without a net, but what if a guy has a string of arrests but has never been convicted of any crime because, say, he has the same name as a notorious criminal? Or maybe he was implicated in a felony but the charges were dropped?

Innocent till proven guilty should rule the day.

On a related note, how many people are charged for attempting to illegally purchase firearms every year? As I understand it if a person is denied they just walk away.
i think i see where you're going with this. and will add this into the subject.

an arrest isn't a conviction and knowing someone is guilty is still far from being proven guilty. i will cite my opinions on the OJ Simpson case, most people believed he was guilty of murder, but the state failed in proving he was guilty. so therefor he is innocent of the charges and by all rights should regain all of his rights.

a gang banger caught doing something illegally should be charged with the crimes he committed. if those were felonies and he has a CC permit, then it would be revoked. if then caught with a firearm , he would be no different than any other felon in possession of a firearm and go back to prison.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:34 AM   #18
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i think i see where you're going with this. and will add this into the subject.

an arrest isn't a conviction and knowing someone is guilty is still far from being proven guilty. i will cite my opinions on the OJ Simpson case, most people believed he was guilty of murder, but the state failed in proving he was guilty. so therefor he is innocent of the charges and by all rights should regain all of his rights.

a gang banger caught doing something illegally should be charged with the crimes he committed. if those were felonies and he has a CC permit, then it would be revoked. if then caught with a firearm , he would be no different than any other felon in possession of a firearm and go back to prison.
If he uses the gun in the commission of a crime that is a felony. Yes. But if he plausibly uses it to "defend" himself, say from a drive-by shooting that happens to be a rival gang, then it would be up to the Court to prove he was in the act of committing a crime. Conversely, if he did not have a CCW, he would have been illegally carrying and that is a crime in and of itself, let alone discharging said firearm!

My point is that if the guy beats the rap of the other crime, his having a CCW would prevent him from a conviction on that charge which would automatically make it into a felony. Don't get me wrong, I am just spitballing here.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:41 AM   #19
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If he uses the gun in the commission of a crime that is a felony. Yes. But if he plausibly uses it to "defend" himself, say from a drive-by shooting that happens to be a rival gang, then it would be up to the Court to prove he was in the act of committing a crime. Conversely, if he did not have a CCW, he would have been illegally carrying and that is a crime in and of itself, let alone discharging said firearm!

My point is that if the guy beats the rap of the other crime, his having a CCW would prevent him from a conviction on that charge which would automatically make it into a felony. Don't get me wrong, I am just spitballing here.
i completely understand and was spitballing with you! a gang banger involved with a rive-by shooting and having a CC permit and claiming self defence kind of seems almost like a Catch 22!
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:53 AM   #20
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i completely understand and was spitballing with you! a gang banger involved with a rive-by shooting and having a CC permit and claiming self defence kind of seems almost like a Catch 22!
Well, maybe not a Catch-22 but I think I know what you mean.
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