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Old 08-13-2013, 03:24 AM   #41
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Once they perfect super capacitors, Katie bar the door! I thought it we would have to wait until fuel cells are perfected, but it appears super capacitors are going to beat them to the finish line.

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Old 08-13-2013, 04:09 AM   #42
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We will never run out of crude. So many keep buying into the Muslims and big oil saying on there is a finite supply. Pure bs told to the masses to keep the fear up. Fear is the easiest way to control the masses.
Great! We will never run out of crude. Can we see the prices drop a little then? As long as we are primarily reliant on petroleum for energy production all of our eggs are in one basket, and that basket handle is held by the oil producers be they OPEC or domestic suppliers and all oil producers are only motivated by their enormous profits.

They have us all by the short hairs because they have full control over the entire market from getting it out of the ground to putting gas into your tank. I am not at all against capitalism at work, but I do have a problem when fair competition is discouraged. And before you go into the amount of tax money that is being "thrown away" to alternative energy remember that billions if not trillions of dollars are thrown away every year towards the most profitable industry in the world, that being the oil industry. This has been going on for over a century now.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:17 AM   #43
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Fear is the easiest way to control the masses.
Why be fearful of developing alternative energy then? If you don't want to use it then you don't have to buy into it. Nobody is going to force you to buy an electric car or to put up wind or solar generation. Keep on driving your gasoline powered car.

I am not fearful of running out of oil, as a matter of fact I am 100% supportive of developing our domestic oil resources in parallel with our developing alternatives. We can do both. You can choose to take advantage of the alternative energy sources or not. But I want to have the choice available!
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:48 AM   #44
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Remove the state and federal taxes from petroleum products and they will once more be economical. Every thing regarding energy products is heavily taxed from the well head to your gas tank. The government gets more from a gallon of fuel than does the producer.
Anyone who thinks Solar or electric will be an inexpensive alternative has been asleep. These fuels will see heavy taxes to off set the loss of coal and Petro fuels. Your Solar units will need EPA inspections and the CDC will have health issues. They will require on board mileage reporting to monitor fuel usage.

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Old 08-13-2013, 05:36 AM   #45
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Wait. What?

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Remove the state and federal taxes from petroleum products and they will once more be economical.
But then where would the money come from to pay for the tax breaks that the oil companies enjoy? And how do those missing tax revenues get replaced? And I thought that oil was already "affordable!" Isn't that the argument that you guys have been making?

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Every thing regarding energy products is heavily taxed from the well head to your gas tank. The government gets more from a gallon of fuel than does the producer.
And yet we, the consumers, are paying those taxes, not the oil companies. The petroleum business is not high profit-margin, they make their bucks on volume, and they make it from the bottom to the top. They make money in exploration (highly subsidized by the US Government I might add), they make money on development, on pumping it out of the ground, on transportation (depending on the specifics, transportation accounts for the largest piece of the profit pie), refining, transportation again, distribution (those two can probably be condensed), and the sales at the pump. Billions of gallons every single day. You are correct that there are more taxes on a gallon of gas then there is profit realized by the oil company for that same gallon. In CA the taxes on a gallon of gas run about 72 cents a gallon. Oil companies make less than 10 cents a gallon profit, though this is difficult to actually discern.

What is your point?

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Anyone who thinks Solar or electric will be an inexpensive alternative has been asleep.
Well then, wake me up. How am I paying more for my electricity now than I was before I installed the 12.5 kW solar PV system on my roof? And once the system has "paid for" itself. My system has been producing around 15.5 kWh a year since it was installed. This is over 2/3 of our annual usage. Once we have reached the "payoff point" in another two years that 2/3 of our needs will be free!!!


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These fuels will see heavy taxes to off set the loss of coal and Petro fuels.
OK, what? What "fuel"? Sunlight? Wind? What are they gonna tax? Will they tax us on how much energy we produce on an individual generator basis? And if we are consuming or storing it on site as its being produced, how do they measure that?

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Your Solar units will need EPA inspections and the CDC will have health issues.
Are you flippin' nuts? (OK, rhetorical question there. I digress.)

There are no emissions nor are there any moving parts in a solar PV system. What environmental impact do you foresee that the EPA would have to monitor and inspect for? There is no smoke plume, no soot, no sludge, no farts, no anything being produced except for electricity. Oh, well, if you count all of the hot air that Rush Limpdick exhales while bloviating about the subject I guess you would have to monitor that.

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They will require on board mileage reporting to monitor fuel usage.
This is actually a good point. There will have to be some mechanism for EV drivers to help pay for infrastructure which is currently paid for primarily through fuel taxes. Perhaps in a registration fee, or maybe in a mileage monitor or reporting program. The EVs need to help pay for road upkeep. Its only fair.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:46 AM   #46
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Great! We will never run out of crude. Can we see the prices drop a little then? As long as we are primarily reliant on petroleum for energy production all of our eggs are in one basket, and that basket handle is held by the oil producers be they OPEC or domestic suppliers and all oil producers are only motivated by their enormous profits.

They have us all by the short hairs because they have full control over the entire market from getting it out of the ground to putting gas into your tank. I am not at all against capitalism at work, but I do have a problem when fair competition is discouraged. And before you go into the amount of tax money that is being "thrown away" to alternative energy remember that billions if not trillions of dollars are thrown away every year towards the most profitable industry in the world, that being the oil industry. This has been going on for over a century now.
We don't have price drops here because a new Refineray hasn't been built in 30+ years. Thank you EPA.

I don't think money is thrown away if invested correctly. But, when the government invest billions into companies of green energy and within 6 months they go bankrupt that wasn't investing that was giving money away to a friend at our expense.

Big oil has us by the balls and they know it. Exxon got fined a whopping $100 mill for the Valdez oil spill. That year their profit was over $117 billion.

Coal on the other hand is a finite nonrenewable resource. We need to move away from coal for power and move to a more diversified energy production infrastructure. Mr. Tesla wanted to do this from the get go. He had plans so that every home could power itself with electricity from the atmosphere for free.

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Why be fearful of developing alternative energy then? If you don't want to use it then you don't have to buy into it. Nobody is going to force you to buy an electric car or to put up wind or solar generation. Keep on driving your gasoline powered car.

I am not fearful of running out of oil, as a matter of fact I am 100% supportive of developing our domestic oil resources in parallel with our developing alternatives. We can do both. You can choose to take advantage of the alternative energy sources or not. But I want to have the choice available!
It is not us that is fearful of developing green or clean energy. It's the big oil and all other industry's that work with them, car companies, governments etc.... They are scared to lose their captured client base. They keep the masses scared that we don't have the technology to drive cars with other fuels and that the fuel supply is going to run out at any time. They do this to keep the masses saying just what many here have said.

To break away we need governments that do cowtow to big oil we need big oil to go away and we need more investment in green tech.

Your going to tell me we can put a man on the moon in 1969 yet we haven't figured out a way to drive across town with a battery?

We all complain about high gas prices but, when the needle hits E we all do what go right back to the people who are taking it to us with no lube.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:00 PM   #47
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At this point, Electric Vehicles are Viable, they just arent sustainable yet. Its not so much the practicality of ZEV's as the NRG Production needed to transition to an all electric transportation platform and were not even close. We have unreliable, way too expensive and unequal access to the Electricity needed to run a petroleum based transportation system, where are we gonna get the Extra terra-watts a ZEV word will demand if were marginal now?

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Old 08-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #48
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Hey VD, lighten up on the oil companies. While I share your passion for Electric Vehicles and green energy and even agree about past oil company conspiracies like "Who Killed the Electric Car". I firmly believe those days are past us. The conspiracy theories at this point are only kept alive by folks who think that you have to kill conventional energy for anyone to get really serious on green energy. The oil companies will put out 100% domestically even if our usage halves, they will survive no matter what happens and most of them have diversified across the energy spectrum to hedge their bets.
What we desperately need is for everyone to embrace BOTH conventional and green. Tapping domestic resources will solve nearly every problem our country faces currently. At the same time we should be aggressively seeking alternative energies that can work on a large scale. Having a Californian (with a 10 mpg muscle car for an avatar) preach on energy is the epitome of illogic. The state alone uses more gas than any COUNTRY in the world yet they want nothing to do in any way with conventional energy. As far as your subsidy argument, please read below:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_prez_oil_tax_break_lies_Y2Yj6KCU9QIO0BKHs1Be7M

I appreciate that there are people like you that are passionate about alternative energy. As we've been saying for 50 years, it WILL be the future. But while we're waiting should we be relying on foreign oil? "X" amount of barrels are used per day worldwide whether we drill or they do. At least if we do it, it will be more environmentally friendly and our economy will blossom allowing us the funds to pursue better methods of energy if we are smart enough to do so.

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:06 PM   #49
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I like this idea, like the old slot car racetracks: http://autos.yahoo.com/news/korea-constructs-road-that-wirelessly-charges-moving-electric-buses-235314015.html

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:40 PM   #50
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Thats reasonable and cool. A perfect City Solution and thats the place we really need to start greening up first cause they are the biggest offenders of our environment, they need everything from the state that they cannot provide for themselves and then they waste it. They make all the sill ass rules for our state yet exempt themselves from them.

Hundreds of thousands of autos moving in, out and around NY City all day every day like dirty little ants, they burn more fuel stuck in traffic jams than I do driving my 30 miles to work and back every day. Add to that the time square mentality of lighting the place up like a Christmas tree 365 night a year and they are polluters and NRG suckers all jammed into a few square miles.

Truth is their isnt a bad form of NRG production used in the USA, some more desirable than others but we really need all of them to keep the fires burning. NS 's point about the taxes is valid, Californica has seen a large decrease in Fuel Sales due to the higher mileages they are getting, their reaction was to increase the fuel tax to make up for losses due to conservation, Ironic aint it?
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