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Old 07-25-2013, 12:15 AM   #21
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Like I said. I get the idea, but they aren't as "green" yet as many people are lead to believe. I actually tend to be more of a proponent of nuclear power because they reduce carbon emmissions more per Kw than any other form of energy (right now, again based on current technlogy and infrastructure.)

The coal burner comment was really something I used when I was in Georgia, where the coal plant was just down te road, and people still didn't understand that the plug in their wall was connected to that plant. And it was more to point out the lack of thought some people actually put into understanding energy, and how it is produced.

There are other environmental impacts to consider in the mining and disposal of Lithium and rare earth batteries and motors, that are not fully understood or accounted for. Just like disposal and storage of nuclear fuel is the big headache of nuclear power.

And again, I'm all for expanding our energy technology and resources. I'd love to put OPEC out of business. We just aren't there yet.

Your situation is a bit different. You understand that adding your own solar energy to the equation reduces cost and carbon output. There are still others who don't do any of the homework to understand the power grid in their area, to teh point of driving past a coal fired power plant on a frequent basis, and understanding the electrons that come out of their plug at home were generated in that plant. Or the oil fired plant that provides a back-up when demand is high.

Heck, make wind power, solar power, compressed air cell power, hydroelectric power, tidal motion power, nuclear power, distilled fuels, natural gas, algae distillation fuel, hydrogen fuel cells, fusion power, prisoners on a treadmil, oil shale, coal, geothermal steam power, swamp gas, landfill methane. I'm all for it. Just make it cost effective, have an infrastructure from cradle to grave, and make it efficient, and to make sense.

I'm not convinced that carbon is a total evil in teh global warming debate. The sun does go through cycles, it does change over time, and it plays a bigger role in temperature than any other factor.

We can do things smarter, and we should. But we shouldn't turn our back on the resources at hand, until the other technologies are proven from cradle to grave and cost effective.
Since when has the whole petroleum based energy system been "cost effective from cradle to grave"? And since when has that industry given a rip about what the future will bring? OK, most of the big oil companies these days have alternative energy production divisions, but they are approaching it with a half a hard-on. If those companies invested more in developing these alternatives than they do in fighting that trend then we would be realizing more innovation every day and more quickly than we currently are.

I am in total agreement that we should not be turning our backs on the resources at hand. The advancements will be incremental. We cannot pull the carpet out from under the entire nation, or the world, on energy and suddenly say "OK. Now what?" I am not getting rid of my Super Duty any time soon. I still need it. But I don't need it to run to the grocery store and back. What I need is an energy efficient means of transportation, preferably a plug-in hybrid to supplement my 7.3 liter turbo diesel Ford that gets 12-17 MPG in the mountains where I live.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:16 AM   #22
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If we regionalized power and made states make their own, we wouldn't have super cell cities like NY, LA, etc. they don't have the hydro power to sustain themselves, and southern CA doesn't have enough water for its population. It would spread the voter stupidity instead of concentrating it in small avoidable geographic pockets.

Give 'em the power and water they need to keep 'em in place. It's a good investment for the surrounding states.
Don't even get me started on the California water wars!
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:35 AM   #23
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Electric may be the future but I want want the rest of the world is getting for fuel effient vehicles but our fearless leaders won't let happen.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/cars/news/fuel-economy/4276559

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:27 AM   #24
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Electric may be the future but I want want the rest of the world is getting for fuel effient vehicles but our fearless leaders won't let happen.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/cars/news/fuel-economy/4276559
That article is from 2008 and several of the cars mentioned are now available here. But you are absolutely correct, there are many cars that we cannot get here that are incredibly efficient and lots of fun to boot! There is also the problem of emissions. When these cars are brought to the US they must pass stringent emissions requirements which also throttle back the mileage while reducing emissions. it is my theory that there is a net zero gain/loss when they do this because the cars burn more fuel, so the reduction in exhaust emissions is increased in grams per mile traveled.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:20 PM   #25
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I don't know OSU has the Buckeye Bullet.
307+ mph with batteries.


302+ on a hydrogen fuel cell.

Here is a pikes peak electric car run by The Monster Tajima this man has nerves of steel balls of Titanium and can straight drive the crap out of anything on 4 wheels.

http://youtu.be/D0bygKFvnSI
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:24 PM   #26
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OK really how can a car that gets 70+ mpg produce more pollutants than a car that get 30 mpg? You are burning less fuel to go the same distance and speed. This is just more big oil big gublubberment BS. That is like saying well you have to burn less coal to make more energy. That is just STUPID...... Big Oil has a huge grip on our gublubberment that along with the UAW rather large grasp on the gublubberment balls equals us getting SCREWED by an elephant.

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Old 07-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #27
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OK really how can a car that gets 70+ mpg produce more pollutants than a car that get 30 mpg? You are burning less fuel to go the same distance and speed. This is just more big oil big gublubberment BS. That is like saying well you have to burn less coal to make more energy. That is just STUPID...... Big Oil has a huge grip on our gublubberment that along with the UAW rather large grasp on the gublubberment balls equals us getting SCREWED by an elephant.
That is exactly my point regarding the European cars coming over here and being restricted by emissions regulations. The emissions reductions are extremely small while the decrease in mileage is enormous. There must be a delta point somewhere where there is a net loss overall.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:48 PM   #28
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Electric vehicles will not become commonplace unless they can get the math to work. Right now the added cost at initial purchase/cost of charging/ cost of battery replacement every so often/etc, more than eats up any $$$ you would save on gas. And there are only x amount of hippies willing to buy one just to save the planet.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #29
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All I know is my 1972 Dodge colt got 32+ MPG and ran like a dream, never burned a drop of oil and likely as clean as anything on the market getting that mileage now, only reason I dumped it was because the frame and body finally disappeared!

Right now, the three vehicles me and my wife drive combined age is almost 60 years, thats as green as it gets! No vehicle has had to be manufactured for me for a very long time and thats green times 2, saves me money and the earth!

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Old 07-25-2013, 11:04 PM   #30
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Electric vehicles will not become commonplace unless they can get the math to work. Right now the added cost at initial purchase/cost of charging/ cost of battery replacement every so often/etc, more than eats up any $$$ you would save on gas. And there are only x amount of hippies willing to buy one just to save the planet.
You are correct in that, but I'm not sure if you are aware that the companies offering electric cars are giving long warranties on the batteries. I think Tesla has 250K miles on their battery warrantee, I just looked at a Ford C-Max Energi the other day and that has 150K on it. Battery replacement is getting more and more affordable as the number of electrics increases as there is an inverse relationship there. Right now the electrics are more of a short distance commuter car (with the exception of Tesla which has up to 350 miles range). As far as the cost/benefit versus gas, that is getting to be closer and closer as fuel prices rise.

There are also a number of other maintenance savings as electrics do not require all of the drivetrain services as your IC car does. No oil changes, tune-ups, etc. The brakes last much, much longer due to regenerative braking. Lots of other savings to be considered.
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