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Old 09-21-2008, 07:05 AM   #1
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Default You just can't appease Terrorists

Well now what an eventful week this has been for the fools in Pakistan .

First they threaten to fire on American troops trying to root out Taliban and al Qaeda Terrorists hiding out in mountains in their country which one would think would make the terrorists happy .

Now they received their reward for those threats against America by having dozens being killed in a suicide truck bombing on a Marriott Hotel in Islamabad .

President Asif Ali Zardari has said they will not be afraid of the cowardly terrorists yet they want to hinder the American effort to find and bring them to justice .

Sounds to me like they do nothing BUT live in fear , too afraid to take a firm stand against the animals that bomb civilians yet also afraid to let them run their country .

As the old saying goes

Time to crap or get off the pot !

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Old 09-21-2008, 07:21 AM   #2
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Now they received their reward for those threats against America by having dozens being killed in a suicide truck bombing on a Marriott Hotel in Islamabad !
Good thats what they get. I don't feel sorry for them at all.
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #3
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My apologies if this starts a flame war, but I can't honestly stand that "Kill them all" attitude.

It's never ok for innocent people to die, regardless of what country they are in.

Pakistan is making a mistake by not letting us deal with the terrorists, but that doesn't mean they deserve bombings and lost lives.

Realistically, Pakistan has their own sovereign right to deal with the terrorist problem as they see fit. Just like we are dealing with the terrorist problem as we see fit. As good Americans, we should not "condemn" a country just because they may disagree with us on the terrorist issue. We need to diplomatically engage Pakistan further to see if we can convince them to let us in. Otherwise, if they choose to handle the terrorists on their own, so be it, and I wish Pakistan good luck (we will still be watching, though).

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Old 09-21-2008, 03:20 PM   #4
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O well thats war...get over it. Civilians die in war. Its been like that for thousands of years. I'm tired of arguments from people that want to fight a war without killing people. It doesn't work like that. Fighting a war with political restraints will never work. It didn't work in Vietnam and its not going to work now. Save your "save the world don't kill people" bs for the Obama campaign.

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Old 09-21-2008, 05:59 PM   #5
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My apologies if this starts a flame war, but I can't honestly stand that "Kill them all" attitude.

It's never ok for innocent people to die, regardless of what country they are in.

Pakistan is making a mistake by not letting us deal with the terrorists, but that doesn't mean they deserve bombings and lost lives.

Realistically, Pakistan has their own sovereign right to deal with the terrorist problem as they see fit. Just like we are dealing with the terrorist problem as we see fit. As good Americans, we should not "condemn" a country just because they may disagree with us on the terrorist issue. We need to diplomatically engage Pakistan further to see if we can convince them to let us in. Otherwise, if they choose to handle the terrorists on their own, so be it, and I wish Pakistan good luck (we will still be watching, though).
In a traditional sense, I would agree with you.

But we are not fighting a traditional enemy. We are fighting people who believe a politico-religious ideology that spreads through conquest and subjugation. History bears that out.

There are an estimated 1.2 billion Muslims. How many have stood up in defiance of those committing mass-murder in the name of their faith? Precious few.

Does their silence imply complicity? On what side should we err?
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:46 PM   #6
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I think we all need to realize that we are Americans, and as Americans we need to value all innocent life. We need to conduct this war in a way that minimizes collateral damage as much as possible.

To say that a country deserves a bombing of one of it's hotels because they disagree with us, is absolutely not American in my humble opinion. We are better than that.

Regardless of what we think, Pakistan is it's own sovereign nation with it's own political/religous ideals. We do need to stop all terrorists that are fleeing into their country, that is true. We cannot do this by just flexing our muscles. We need to be smart about this, and avoid straining our relations with the middle east any further.

Any time our relations are strained, the terrorists will use that to their advantage to recruit more members into their fold. This means more suicide bombings, IEDs, VBIEDs, etc.......

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Old 09-21-2008, 07:00 PM   #7
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I think we all need to realize that we are Americans, and as Americans we need to value all innocent life. We need to conduct this war in a way that minimizes collateral damage as much as possible.
We have minimized collateral damage significantly in Iraq and Afghanistan to our own expense in blood and treasure.

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To say that a country deserves a bombing of one of it's hotels because they disagree with us, is absolutely not American in my humble opinion. We are better than that.
Is it significantly different to say "they deserved what they got" and "I saw that coming"? We didn't bomb that hotel and cause 53 deaths, those we are fighting did. We encouraged a mode of behavior on the part of the Pakistani government that might have staved off that attack. Instead, they tried to be chummy with (appease) our enemies and got bitten. Hard.

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Regardless of what we think, Pakistan is it's own sovereign nation with it's own political/religous ideals. We do need to stop all terrorists that are fleeing into their country, that is true. We cannot do this by just flexing our muscles. We need to be smart about this, and avoid straining our relations with the middle east any further.
First, what do we do about the terrorists who have already fled into Pakistan? Just pretend they don't exist?

Second, yes, Pakistan is a sovereign nation and their borders should be respected. But if they are knowingly harboring, aiding, financing, training and arming our enemies, that would make them our de facto enemy, would it not?

Third, I don't give a rat's flying crap about straining relations anywhere, including the Middle East. When they sh!tcan their fatwas, stand down and rethink their holy book, then we can concern ourselves with straining relations.

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Any time our relations are strained, the terrorists will use that to their advantage to recruit more members into their fold. This means more suicide bombings, IEDs, VBIEDs, etc.......
Great! Bring the little turds out of the woodwork. They're just that much easier to target.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:14 PM   #8
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You're a good guy, Sgt Miller. That much is clear. You have a heart and a brain and seem to know when to use them, which to me, is a valuable commodity.

It is a difficult task to defeat terrorism. One could say that an isolationist approach would benefit our country best. Throw up a wall and keep the bad guys out and the good people in. However that is neither realistic or advisable (not that you suggested this) The problem we face is that the bad guys are elsewhere and it is best for us to defeat them on their ground rather than our own. We aren't in Pakistan to make the Pakistanis safe, we're there to make AMERICA safe.

We are not the world's police and we need to quit acting like it. We don't want terrorists on the home front, but we can't interfere with people's right to be an a$$holes. So what do we do?

It seems to me that the best recourse is to tell Americans to arm themselves and arm themselves GOOD. Educate the people on how to defend the home, how to spot an enemy, and when to take a life. We are all soldiers in this fight against terrorism. And the sooner we all, from every nationality here, recognize that we are ALL Americans, the better.


Wow...my thought train just went all over the place. Sorry about that.

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Old 09-21-2008, 07:41 PM   #9
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There are some great points of view and one thing is clear, that we all value the sanctity of human life.

As members of the United States we can't condone the outright slaying of innocents and never will. We don't use the same tactics that are being used by our enemies. We don't condone them, we don't applaud them, and we won't stoop to their level in any form.

The problem with Islam, as bkt has been pointing out from the beginning, is that they don't value human life the same way we do. They don't differentiate between an American Civilian and an American Combatant.

For that matter, they do not differentiate between a non-member of Islam Innocent and a non-member of Islam who is a Combatant.

Everyone who isn't with Islam is AGAINST ISLAM

While we can't terminate the planet to get to them, we have to be willing to accept the battleground that is laid before us by our enemies.

Surgical strikes need to be used, and precision fire needs to be used, but we also have to acknowledge that this war is not in the trenches like it was during the World Wars.

We do not have a true "enemy stronghold" that we have benefitted from in the past.

Much like the British, who weren't prepared for the battle in the America's once the Colonials weren't willing to stand in front of them in a convenient line and shoot back and forth, we need to adapt to a new playing field.

It may not always be the war we want, but it is the war we are going to get.

JD

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Old 09-21-2008, 07:46 PM   #10
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I think we all need to realize that we are Americans, and as Americans we need to value all innocent life. We need to conduct this war in a way that minimizes collateral damage as much as possible.
Quote:
Realistically, Pakistan has their own sovereign right to deal with the terrorist problem as they see fit. Just like we are dealing with the terrorist problem as we see fit. As good Americans, we should not "condemn" a country just because they may disagree with us on the terrorist issue. We need to diplomatically engage Pakistan further to see if we can convince them to let us in. Otherwise, if they choose to handle the terrorists on their own, so be it, and I wish Pakistan good luck (we will still be watching, though).
I can agree with the first paragraph SGT but in sending in small groups of troops rather than calling for a blanket bombing campaign we were trying to prevent the unnecessary loss of life "collateral damage" and they threaten our troops .

The problem is they weren't and aren't dealing with the problem other than to talk and as such they are providing aid and comfort to our enemy either directly or indirectly .

As far as us watching well it's way past time for that and has been for 7 years now .

If Muslims exist that do indeed condemn the cowardly attacks that have been committed world wide then they need do far more than just talk about it they need to take strong forceful action to eliminate the threat the terrorists present not only to us but to them , because the terrorist have no problem with collateral damage even if it includes Muslim women and children walking down a street .

The Shah of Iran ignored the terrorist/extremest problem and was forced to flee his country or be killed , they will have no qualms in killing any other political leader in any other nation to gain control of it .
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