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Old 05-01-2013, 09:57 AM   #61
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You have to be joking.
Why must I be joking? If you choose to to raise cattle in an area where cattle have a natural predator then you accept the consequences. All that hunting wolves is going to achieve is the extinction of the species. I hunt but I only hunt for food and when I take a deer, elk moose etc. everything is used.Hide is turned into buckskin using the brains, antlers and bones are used for knife handles and other crafts. This is what hunting is supposed to be not for bragging rights about a ****ing trophy.

I have no problem with farmers putting down a wolf that is killing livestock but having an actual hunting season is not the answer.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #62
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MT, we havent had Wolves or Wildcats in most of NY in my lifetime because they were eliminated with the Yotes long before I was born. Our Farms are far from new and most have had multi-generational family ownership and we dont have public lands used for grazing. Honestly, I dont know anyone around me trophy hunting these things, just trying to keep our areas safe.

I gotta tell you, hearing packs of Yotes within 500 feet of my home does bother me. They dont really have a timeless existence, they have morphed with the times just like other animals have. Fido on a dog run is an easier meal than A deer on a dead run, Fifi is easy pickings and my grand kids are at risk just hanging out in the yard.

We knew when the Yotes returned, all the rabbits disappeared in a matter of a couple years! As a temp resident of Watertown, Im pretty sure you know about the rabies problems weve had, Racoons dont have nearly the range that wild Canines and Felines. The only way we will ever get it under control is to eliminate the carriers.

Im sure Micheal Jackson would disagree with killing all of the rats in the cities seeing as how Ben the rat was his best friend; the rest of the country doesnt feel that way for good reason. Woodchucks, Feral Pigs, Yotes, Wildcats, Wolves and other critters arent harmless to humans, they are vermin.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:21 AM   #63
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For that I would say relocation. I do agree that many mistakes were made in the placement of wolves. They never should have been placed anywhere near population centers. Personally I think it should have been centered in places like Yellowstone, Yosemite or Glacier Park. If they have become a threat where they were placed then if relocation is not possible then yes they should be putdown.

P.S. I haven't been near Watertown or Ft.Drum since 09 when I got out. The day I got out I could not leave quick enough.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:52 AM   #64
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For that I would say relocation. I do agree that many mistakes were made in the placement of wolves. They never should have been placed anywhere near population centers. Personally I think it should have been centered in places like Yellowstone, Yosemite or Glacier Park. If they have become a threat where they were placed then if relocation is not possible then yes they should be putdown.

P.S. I haven't been near Watertown or Ft.Drum since 09 when I got out. The day I got out I could not leave quick enough.
If Vermin stayed where we put them and that was only on state/ fed lands with no populations near, that would be fine. We cant keep illegal aliens from entering our borders, how we gonna stop migration of toothy meat eaters to more productive Hunting grounds, (our back yards)?

Hell, we didnt get any warnings they were establishing or reestablishing most of these critters. My local Vet told us about the Wildcats after my wife saw one in the back yard sunning itself by the pond. The leatherstocking region of this state wasnt a natural range for them for 200 years or more, now it is and thats not a great idea.

My house is over 200 years old; while Im certain that the balance of nature has been upset by human sprawl and growth, most of this region has been settled and farmed since the early 1800's. Years ago, there was a commercial that said, "Dont mess with Mother Nature", thats a relevant phrase today. Tinkering in natural selection rarely produces a positive outcome over the long run.

I havent been back to Drum since 2011 when I retired but I spent big chunks of 17 years in the woods there! I gotta say, eco wise, Fort Drum was a disaster, a toxic waste dump that should have been fenced off like Chernobyl. The animal life was out of control! Herds of giant Racoons, overrun by Beavers, Porcupines and Black Bears all made for interesting nights on the perimeter!

These werent the critters we saw in Grizzly Adams, they were humanized but not domesticated even slightly. They had absolutely No fear of the 5000 Service Members in the woods around them in July and often became desperate in Feb due to the lack of human supplied chow, I cant imagine living in Antwerp and dealing with all the roaming critters (or the stray missiles from the TOW range)!
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #65
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I see no reason to relocate surplus dangerous animals, particularly non-native/introduced/re-introduced species. That seems like a serious waste of MY TAX DOLLARS. Put a bullet in them or trap them, then let the local scavengers take care of the mess.

Far too much of this country's borrowed Chinese money is wasted on conservationista programs that do nothing to improve our environment or the animals that are actually native to it. Suburbia may have once been part of the "natural range" of dangerous predators like mountain lions, wolves, and bears, but that time has passed, and the best thing for the residents of those suburbs and for the animals is to reduce the populations of these animals to a bare minimum in areas where they might come into conflict with humans. A bear eating garbage at the city dump is not a "natural" bear; it has become a verminous pest. Garbage bears and backyard wolves and city park cougars need to be put down for public safety and if for no other reason than to preserve the memory of times in the Past when such animals roamed human-free natural environments and lived as apex predators in a ecosystem that didn't include humans on the scale of the suburbs.

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Old 05-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #66
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Why must I be joking? If you choose to to raise cattle in an area where cattle have a natural predator then you accept the consequences. All that hunting wolves is going to achieve is the extinction of the species............
having an actual hunting season is not the answer.
Regardless whether you own some cows or you don't own some cows, you do not understand the issue and do not understand how Mom Nature works.

First, there is no "Balance of Nature". That is something invented by liberal morons who never spent time in the bush. Nature is a see-saw. She always has been. There is no "balance" point anywhere, ever, and those who seek to find it should find another line of work.

As for your allegedly using all the parts of an animal, that's real nice. Admirable, even. It's what tends to happen when hunting opportunities are limited. Native indians were not so careful when they ran hundreds of buffalo off a cliff to break their legs and backs. But I digress...

Wolves will clean out all the elk first. Then the moose. Then all the deer. And after everything has been killed, they will starve. It will take a generation or three for animal populations to recover. This is not a white man event; this is the way it is. Read some actual history instead of the Disney version and you will find many accounts of native indians showing up at trading posts begging for food because they were starving. They were at the "saw" end of the see-saw and there was nothing to hunt. You will also find accounts of native indians killing off all the game in an area after they got firearms, but I digress again.

The reason ungulate populations were high in your country and mine during the early to mid/late 20th century was because of an aggressive wolf/bear control effort. Wolves, in particular, were shot on sight and poisoned.

I dont' personally want to see anything die of poisoning, but certainly we have to be allowed to shoot wolves at every opportunity. Bears, too. Black bears take 40-50% of moose calves here every spring. Same with elk, I imagine, but I've not see a study regarding elk calves.

Don't worry; you'll still have wolves. We can shoot wolves here in Alberta from fall through to spring. No licence required. It's been that way forever. Where did Montana get it's wolves? From us. We've got lots.

I'll be away in about 10 days to find a black bear. I get two tags for those. Yup, lots of bears, too. I've only ever shot one wolf; I picked her off an elk's rump. I've seen lots and I'm a pretty good hunter and a marksman. You can connect those dots for yourself.

It's just not that easy to find bears and wolves and hunting them with firearms will never, ever eradicate them. 'Specially wolves....smart critter. Depending on conditions, they need only seconds at 500 yards (or more) to know what you are and then "blink" - gone.
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #67
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Me and my Best Buddy often cooked up vermin to try, Ive eaten Woodchuck, Crow, Pigeon, Muskrat, Racoons, Mountain Lion and more than one type of "Beaver", some tasted better than others but it was more for a hoot than any particular morality thing. Eating wild untested meat eaters isnt a great idea, they often carry diseases. We dont suggest its the moral thing for people to eat rats, snakes or roaches when they kill them, why would someone treat big pests any differently?
How was mountain lion?
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:41 PM   #68
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I'll be away in about 10 days to find a black bear. I get two tags for those.
And Bless You for doing it! Please, for me, just kick the bear in the ass once after it is down, maybe say "Orangello says ".

Thanks
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:28 PM   #69
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And Bless You for doing it! Please, for me, just kick the bear in the ass once after it is down, maybe say "Orangello says ".

Thanks
LOL. I have no hatred or dislike for anything in the bush, including the predators, but I generally try to shoot one every year if I can make time. We hunt ungulates so I reckon we should try to even things out a bit.

ps: I really don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but here's a neat video of a young American bear hunter in SK that had an interesting experience he won't ever forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9VQSZ4c20KE#!
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:00 PM   #70
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LOL. I have no hatred or dislike for anything in the bush, including the predators, but I generally try to shoot one every year if I can make time. We hunt ungulates so I reckon we should try to even things out a bit.

ps: I really don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but here's a neat video of a young American bear hunter in SK that had an interesting experience he won't ever forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9VQSZ4c20KE#!
I have not been so impatient with a cameraman since The Blair Witch movie.

My coworkers looked at me when I yelled "shoot through the stand you ignant bafoon, SHOOT THROUGH THE STAND!"

Sidearms are not just for looks.


edit*Finally got all the way through it. Damn! Five stars for certain! They need a camera mount that will allow the camera guy to take down the other bear, though.

Wonder what kind of bear crack was in that bait?
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