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Old 05-06-2013, 08:47 PM   #41
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You keep saying that OCing would make you a target, so where's your proof? Your statements don't hold water without proof.
Fact if you are open carrying then a possible attacker knows you have a firearm.
Fact if he decides to carry out a attack the one he knows has a firearm is the first he will take out.
Fact if the attacker doesn't know who is armed he loses that advantage.
Fact that tells a possible burglar that you have firearms at home if he is after firearms he will know were to get them when you are not at home.

Its up to the individual I don't see any advantages of open carry that outweigh concealed carry.

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Good lord, just being identified as an off duty police officer or prison guard, or even a member of your military is grounds for being gunned down in the street with automatic weapons!?!?!? I would HATE to live in such a place.
That's like saying that I would HATE to live in America because everyone feels the need to carry firearms. I am sure being a police officer makes them a target to some in America and plenty of officers are murdered. Few are killed here now but no point in putting a big sign over your head identifying yourself as a police officer. The crime rate here is the lowest in the UK apart from some terrorist incidents then you get them in America as well should that stop someone visiting or living in America. ?
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #42
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Fact if you are open carrying then a possible attacker knows you have a firearm.
Fact if he decides to carry out a attack the one he knows has a firearm is the first he will take out.
Fact if the attacker doesn't know who is armed he loses that advantage.
Fact that tells a possible burglar that you have firearms at home if he is after firearms he will know were to get them when you are not at home.

Its up to the individual I don't see any advantages of open carry that outweigh concealed carry.

That's like saying that I would hate to live in America because everyone feels the need to carry firearms. I am sure being a police officer makes them a target to some in America and plenty of officers are murdered. Few are killed here now but no point in putting a big sign over your head identifying yourself as a police officer.
Those are still what ifs. Unless you have real world examples of this happening, then your argument is invalid.

We all carry firearms here because we can. In the UK, for the most part, you can't.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #43
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Fact if you are open carrying then a possible attacker knows you have a firearm.
Fact if he decides to carry out a attack the one he knows has a firearm is the first he will take out.
Fact if the attacker doesn't know who is armed he loses that advantage.
Fact that tells a possible burglar that you have firearms at home if he is after firearms he will know were to get them when you are not at home.

Its up to the individual I don't see any advantages of open carry that outweigh concealed carry.

That's like saying that I would hate to live in America because everyone feels the need to carry firearms. I am sure being a police officer makes them a target to some in America and plenty of officers are murdered. Few are killed here now but no point in putting a big sign over your head identifying yourself as a police officer.
and you have evidence that supports these supposed "facts"?

that was the whole intention of this thread. proof that carrying openly creates the possibilty that the person carrying will be gunned down first. please cite your links to these supposed facts you mention.

without corroborating links to evidence and proof, it still remains and unsupported opinion of yours. an opinion is one thing, but stating it's a fact without proof makes your statements lack credibilty.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #44
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Good lord, just being identified as an off duty police officer or prison guard, or even a member of your military is grounds for being gunned down in the street with automatic weapons!?!?!? I would HATE to live in such a place.


You're right, that's not quite exactly what I had in mind, of a person going about their day armed. But, being that I assume you're talking about non LEOS, armed on the job, or having a firearm handy beneath the counter, it's close enough like horse shoes and hand grenades to me. Can you provide any links to news stories?

(side note: how often have any of you seen sometime actually try, and encourage others to try, to find supporting material for an opposing view with so little success?)
no don't have any links or references. just some things i have read over the years and saw on TV news programs. most cases there was a struggle and the clerk lost control of the firearm. IMO, probably pretty isolated cases on the whole.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:17 PM   #45
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I can tell you how it would work for me.....

If I were in the process of robbing the local liquor store and open-totin Bubba came in the door, he would be knocking on the pearly gate before he could get his hands off the door handle.

You ask for irrefutable evidence to a hypothetical question, you are setting up a predetermined answer. You should be a pollster.
Talking about what YOU would do, in the theoretical situation that you're the bad guy, is all fine and dandy. We used to call that "war gaming" when I was in the Corps. You can always run it through your head, "if 'this' happened, what would I do?"

I hope you think about it from the good guy's position more so than the bad guy's!

And no, I'm not asking for irrefutable proof to a hypothetical situation. I'm not asking someone to prove something that doesn't exist, I'm asking for someone, ANYONE, to prove this something that so many people swear DOES exist, actually has some basis in having happened. I'm asking for ANY evidence at all to support these constant claims that this hypothetical situation WILL happen.

As I'm not trying to bias any opinions, or garner false support for or against any cause, I don't see where this has anything to do with cooking polls like a democrat (that's a joke, don't get your panties twisted just yet)

So far, we have one incident that is exactly like I was asking to be proven. Exactly ONE, and it happened in a foreign country.

Axxe said that he's heard of a couple cases that, in my opinion, sound like they're close enough to count-MAYBE. We'll see when he gets back with some links.

That's not nearly enough to convince me that I'm in imminent danger. I can pull up more news stories of people getting struck by lightening than that.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:21 PM   #46
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and you have evidence that supports these supposed "facts"?
So you don't think its a fact if someone sees you with a firearm he knows you have one. I did give a example of attackers not knowing someone was armed and it saved his life.
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We all carry firearms here because we can. In the UK, for the most part, you can't.
I don't see what that has to do with open or concealed carry in America. And I am sure not all Americans carry firearms.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:30 PM   #47
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So you don't think its a fact if someone sees you with a firearm he knows you have one. I did give a example of attackers not knowing someone was armed and it saved his life.
I don't see what that has to do with open or concealed carry in America. And I am sure not all Americans carry firearms.
You talk about these facts as if it proves your point! Okay, so if someone sees your gun, they know you have it. No ****, Sherlock. CAN you correlate that to any damn thing besides the fact that they're not blind? Specifically, can you correlate that to someone being targeted because they have a gun?
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:43 PM   #48
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Talking about what YOU would do, in the theoretical situation that you're the bad guy, is all fine and dandy. We used to call that "war gaming" when I was in the Corps. You can always run it through your head, "if 'this' happened, what would I do?"

I hope you think about it from the good guy's position more so than the bad guy's!

And no, I'm not asking for irrefutable proof to a hypothetical situation. I'm not asking someone to prove something that doesn't exist, I'm asking for someone, ANYONE, to prove this something that so many people swear DOES exist, actually has some basis in having happened. I'm asking for ANY evidence at all to support these constant claims that this hypothetical situation WILL happen.

As I'm not trying to bias any opinions, or garner false support for or against any cause, I don't see where this has anything to do with cooking polls like a democrat (that's a joke, don't get your panties twisted just yet)

So far, we have one incident that is exactly like I was asking to be proven. Exactly ONE, and it happened in a foreign country.

Axxe said that he's heard of a couple cases that, in my opinion, sound like they're close enough to count-MAYBE. We'll see when he gets back with some links.

That's not nearly enough to convince me that I'm in imminent danger. I can pull up more news stories of people getting struck by lightening than that.
and these cases i was refering to, were not openly carrying per say, but had a firearm under the counter. IMO, kind of at the far end of the spectrum in relation to the original subject.

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So you don't think its a fact if someone sees you with a firearm he knows you have one. I did give a example of attackers not knowing someone was armed and it saved his life.
I don't see what that has to do with open or concealed carry in America. And I am sure not all Americans carry firearms.
proves they are not blind? how does that prove they would be targeted first? again provide proof, not what you say as being proof.

yeah you might have a small point there, that not all Americans carry. i am pretty sure the panty waisted liberal gunt haters probably don't carry. they think that 911 will save them!
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #49
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Unlike the majority, i am a fan of open carry. I have my reasons. I dont go strolling into the big city doing it. But I own property in KS, NM and ID. I carry openly in NM. It is widely accepted as it is in AZ. No one gives it a second thought. I open carry depending on the situation and truthfully i would do it all the time if our country wasnt as stupid about guns as it is now.

I have been a state and federal law enforcement officer for about 8 years now, and i know this thread calls for accounts where open carry has gotten someone killed, but i have never seen or heard of anything of the sort.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:19 PM   #50
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CAN you correlate that to any damn thing besides the fact that they're not blind? Specifically, can you correlate that to someone being targeted because they have a gun?
As I said if someone wants to open carry go for it We have the sort of guys here as well as America that would open carry. He would be wearing a T shirt in the winter showing off the muscles thinking look at me how cool I look while everyone was looking at him thinking what a prat. I am sure not all are like that but I am sure you know and see some that are. I don't need evidence I think concealed carry makes more sense for the reasons I have stated some think differently that's life get over it.
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