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Old 01-31-2009, 01:35 AM   #21
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Cane, you crack me up brother. Laughed so hard, damn near gave myself a hernia.
Just don't blow some guy named Beer on your computer!

I guess that happened to another member??

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Old 01-31-2009, 01:46 AM   #22
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WOW, bout as useful as tits on a boar hog!
Eh, it's three pages of "field trials" with the pistol - more than you are going to get out of Guns & Ammo...

What do you want for free internetz cane?!?

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Old 01-31-2009, 11:56 AM   #23
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I agree with the 1911. They are simple to take care of and use. The only thing I would say over a 1911 in 45acp would be a revolver in 357 or 41mag with a 3 or 4" barrel.

I need a good revolver to round of my collection for now. Seeing as my dad is sending me another rifle for my birthday. That all you mother effers forgot. LOL

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Old 01-31-2009, 02:10 PM   #24
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If you are an inexperienced shooter and other shooters are also inexperienced, I would recommend a shooting .38 specials from a double action only Ruger SP101 in .357 Magnum. If you want a semi-auto that is beginner friendly, I'd recommend the Smith & Wesson SW9VE or SW40VE. You'll have to practice with either choice, but both are simple straight forward guns. I'd get more practice and take a course before making the commitment to concealed carry.

Choosing a Handgun for Home Defense - Associated Content

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Old 01-31-2009, 03:42 PM   #25
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It is tiny and may looks like a lighter but it's just a bit tinier than the CZ 82 in a bigger bullet. Granted 4 less shots that 9 Markarov but...it's .40 and would knock you on your butt.

It's also based off the CZ 75 P-O1 Platform which is just bad a**

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Release: CZ P-01 gets NATO approval. The next Generation of perfect pistols
Date: 2003-02-01 09:24:31

To return to the releases list, click here.

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.
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Old 01-31-2009, 04:59 PM   #26
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JiroZero713, I'm a big fan of CZ guns and I think the Rami is a great pocket pistol, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a main home defense handgun. I'd go with something a larger (like a CZ 75).

The 1911 is a great suggestion, if seven or eight rounds aren't enough you can get a high capacity model like the ones made by Para Ordnance (14+1). I'm a revolver man, so 8 bullets seem like plenty to me, but I still have to find a gun fight survivor complaining about having too much ammo.

I recently decided to buy a 1911 (Para Ordnance 14-45, I'm starting the paperwork on Monday) and one of the reasons to get it was that both my girlfriend and her eight year old son seemed to be able to shoot it well enough. They are both small (the boy is eight) and have zero gun experience, and found the single action trigger a lot easier to handle than the double action trigger on my revolvers (even my ultra-smooth 640).

I wouldn't recommend one as a carry weapon for beginners, but as a home defense handgun it's not that hard to train somebody to use it. I don't expect my girlfriend or her kid to field strip it and clean it, that's my job. But it's reassuring to know that they can aim and fire it in an emergency. Recoil wasn't too bad, the boy actually seemed to enjoy it (what red blooded male wouldn't enjoy an afternoon with a .45?), my girlfriend would have probably fired tighter groups with a 9mm or .380. But since she's not into shooting (yet! I haven't given up!) and won't be firing hundreds of rounds every month, I'm more than happy with her being able to put three rounds into the COM at five yards quickly.

So, this is just a really long winded way to say, get the 1911!

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Old 01-31-2009, 05:06 PM   #27
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Uh never would I use the Rami as a home defense pisol. I'm talking about it specifically as a pocket pistol....which...since this was about CCW handguns for the most part since the Kimber Pro Carry was mentioned is why I suggested that.

For home defense a full size CZ 75 SPO-1 is well and good...and a middle ground winter months home and carry gun would be the CZ 75 PO-1

Also if your looking for .45 I'd go with the CZ 97 my favorite .45 or yes a full size 1911.

But for the home a revolver and shotgun are the best IMO.

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Old 01-31-2009, 10:24 PM   #28
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what about the .40 S&W for stopping power. Good or not? I mean I understand it's not a .45 but will it put someone down and is it user friendly enough for my wife who has zero weapon experience?

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Old 01-31-2009, 10:33 PM   #29
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It's a good round. It's basically everything that was good from 9mm in high capacity and half of what was good in .45

.45 has better stopping power but cops were using 9mm for capacity purposes I think (don't quote me on that)

But since 9mm has a chance of going straight through the body and causing minimal damage unless your using HP. .45 will knock you on your ass.

.40 was created to give cops higher capacity than in a .45 but with just as good stopping power.

It's like how 16 gauge is the middle ground between 12 and 20.....

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Old 01-31-2009, 11:14 PM   #30
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what about the .40 S&W for stopping power. Good or not? I mean I understand it's not a .45 but will it put someone down and is it user friendly enough for my wife who has zero weapon experience?

When the FBI did round evaluation, and determined that the 10mm was TOO BIG for some of their agents hands ( sorry Robo ) they basically came up with the market for the .40 S&W.

It was EVERYWHERE when it came out.... The cover of every magazine and I bought into the hype Hook, Line & Sinker. I bought a Sig P-228 in .40 SW and I carried it for over 8 years. Never once did I have to test it's metal, but I put thousands of rounds through my factory barrel and ended up ordering a tight chamber, match grade, barrel to replace it with for the final two years of my time carrying it.

The .40 S&W is reported, by the FBI test, to have the power to stop a 190lb attacker with two shots. I never believed that, but I knew that my ability to pull the trigger would equal half a magazine before any SOB got close enough to due me any harm.

I carried my Sig in Detroit, in Chicago, in Dallas/Ft Worth, in Oakland and before I became a globe trotting contractor, in Tacoma, Wa - Hilltop to be exact. I never had fear of the ability of my pistol to put some bad guy's d!ck in the dirt.

Years later, I was introduced to the wonders of the 1911. After that, I never looked back. As have many, Enlightened Souls.

JD
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