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Old 07-24-2008, 01:07 PM   #21
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It is well documented that the presence of a SWAT type unit REDUCES the level of force that is ultimately used. Most, if not all agencies err to the side of caution and call in SWAT when there is a potential barricaded subject. Along with the "tactical" officers come negotiators and media. The idea is to let calm heads prevail and use dynamic entry only as a last resort.

Sure there are the occasions where the bad guy is gone. Better to waste 8 hours trying to negotiate with an empty house than get someone (including the bad guy) hurt or killed.

I was the supervisor on duty when my patrol troops were about to enter an apartment going after a guy that assaulted his girlfriend. He was reported to be armed with a 9mm handgun. I made the scene, spoke to the deputies at the apartment door and We banged on the door several times ordering him to come out. Of couse he did not and we formed a perimeter. We evacuated the agacent apartments. I called for the SWAT team who arrived and took over. Once they were in position they began giving orders to the guy over the loud speaker. Almost immediately, he came out with out a fight. I guess he thought we would go away and when SWAT had him trapped, he saw no real alternative. Never found a gun, the girlfriend probably made that part up but we do not get paid enough to risk our lives when there are alternatives available. Our SWAT team has only killed one person in 20 years. Hundreds of situations have been resolved with out violence. A small handful of empty houses have been surrounded.

In my professional opinion, it is far better to "waste" a few thousand dollars for a standoff with an empty house than to "waste" a human life, especially if that life is a fellow officer.

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Old 07-24-2008, 02:29 PM   #22
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RL - No Worries brother. It came off a bit funny, but I didn't take as such. I was just asking for clarification.

My point was only to make that they guys have fancy gear, and they get to do all sorts of cool stuff - that part is true, but they are people first. Nobody can predict what these "ordinary" guys will do when ordered to do something they don't agree with personally.

Spending time around a lot of them, I can tell you, they are all regular guys. They whistle at hot chicks, they hate to see people who are complete dirtbags make obscene amounts of money ( either legally or illegally ), they all feel that there could be better leadership from the local level to up on high, they pay their taxes, they bitch about paying their taxes, etc. etc. etc.

I personally don't want a SWAT unit driving their armored HumVee right across my lawn and into my neighbor's house as a first ditch effort at conflict resolution. I don't want snipers to be green lit at the first sight of a badguy who happens to be in the house across the street from where my fiancee' is working if there are other alternatives.

Sometimes mistakes are made. Yeah, time was wasted. Perhaps too much time, but even if a good SWAT guy puts down the worst bad guy out there, there is an aftermath for that team member. And at the end of the day, that Team Member is still just a guy like you, me or the rest of the blokes on the forum.

JD

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Old 07-24-2008, 04:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Do you honestly think the majority of the guys in blue are going to go to work from 12 to 10, rape and pillage the community they work out of, punch out, go home and be subjected to the same kind of "police state" you are describing? Seriously? If so, well, I guess you have a bit more cynical view than I do and there is no point in discussing this further because we will have no recourse other than to agree to disagree.
Whoa! I didn't describe that - you did.

I am talking about coercion and conformance to government policies, such as house-to-house gun confiscation, enforced rationing, armed tax collection (we already have that), and general lack of liberty based on the concept of sovereign citizens. The cops in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union didn't rape or pillage, but I daresay you would call them police states.

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Do you honestly think that if society broke down the first place the cops are going to be looking to "suppress" is going to be the middle class neighborhoods with people who go to work, go to church and pay their taxes?
Yep. My experience with cops is that they are like deer - they are lazy. When given a choice, they always take the easy route.

Furthermore, they have a documented tendency to implement policy they know is wrong because they don't want to jeopardize their next promotion/raise/retirement. Katrina was only one example.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:59 PM   #24
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Whoa! I didn't describe that - you did.

I am talking about coercion and conformance to government policies, such as house-to-house gun confiscation, enforced rationing, armed tax collection (we already have that), and general lack of liberty based on the concept of sovereign citizens. The cops in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union didn't rape or pillage, but I daresay you would call them police states.


Yep. My experience with cops is that they are like deer - they are lazy. When given a choice, they always take the easy route.

Furthermore, they have a documented tendency to implement policy they know is wrong because they don't want to jeopardize their next promotion/raise/retirement. Katrina was only one example.

I'm not going to waste much more of my time on this topic, but I must say, if all that you mentioned is happening in your state, you should really consider moving to FL. Besides a voting mishap, we have it pretty good here. Where do you currently live, Cuba?
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:59 PM   #25
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I'm not going to waste much more of my time on this topic, but I must say, if all that you mentioned is happening in your state, you should really consider moving to FL. Besides a voting mishap, we have it pretty good here. Where do you currently live, Cuba?
+1. That's enough for me to be done with this thread.

New subject on Firearm's themselves please.....

JD
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