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Old 06-08-2014, 10:09 PM   #31
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At 3:30 p.m. (Berlin time) on December 11, 1941, the German charge d'affaires in Washington D.C. handed American Secretary of State Cordell Hull a copy of the declaration of war. Hitler had declared war on the United States of America.

This was after Roosevelt declared war on Japan, December 8th, 1941. Then it took the combined forces of Britain, Russia, Free French, Free Polish, Free Czechoslovakia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and finally the USA (who won the whole thing by themselves?), another four years to beat the Germans and decimate their country. I always get annoyed at Americans who believe they won the war alone. Remember the Philipines and the Battle of the Bulge. Cockiness is easily exposed.
America sat back and ridiculed Britain for two years while Britain fought alone, then ripped Britain off for money and territorial rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers_for_Bases_Agreement). The war loans were finally paid off by Britain on December 31st, 2006.

World War II was a huge task, and fortunately was won by the Allies and Russia. If Britain had fallen in the early days, then America would have reaped the benefit of Hitler's V3 rockets and probable atomic weapons. So, don't think that America saved anybody, America thankfully, eventually joined in on the correct side.
We should have done what Churchill wanted, and kept right on going into east Europe and Russia. Then we wouldn't have had to deal with the 'Cold War' for 45 years.
Not cocky, just saying that we were virtually the only nation that didnt have a horse in the European Theater of war, without our involvement, Russia would have met with the full force of the Nazi War Machine and fallen hard. Im not denigrating the memories of the resistance fighters or the Allies but they were after-all fighting to regain lands the Germans took from them or trying to stop them from taking more. The USA was never really in danger of a German Invasion, we did send many thousands to fight in a land they had only heard of and they turned the tide back on Mr Hitler but with a great cost.

We had enough problems with a Japanese invasion, fighting both of those wars at once was a feat of awesomeness the world has never seen and I hope we never see again.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:21 PM   #32
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Webley Fosberry McArthur also wouldn't recognise the efforts of the Australian Diggers in New Guinea and the Islands basically calling them cowards and worthless but we managed to hold and turn the Japs around in New Guinea and chase them back and also gave the Japs a real hiding at Milne Bay when they came ashore as we slaughtered them as the doors of their landing craft opened so by the time the USA arrived we'd all but beaten the Japs.

We got no recognition from McArthur for that.

We gave Rommel a smack in the nose at Tobruk and El Alamein along with the New Zealanders and POMs pushed Rommel out of Africa without any or very little American help.

In both world wars Aussie Diggers were respected by the Germans,Turks,Italians,Japanese for our fighting abilities and bravery in hard fighting and in WWI the Germans at Villiers Brentenoux basically surrendered when they found out that it was the Aussies fighting against them such was the fury the Diggers fought with giving no quarter.

In VietNam we fought the Battle of Long Tan rubber plantation where we fought an estimated 2500 Vietcong and killed at least 245 confirmed and lost 18 killed and 24 wounded with the help of New Zealand artillery.

Our Diggers have also featured fairly well in Iraq and Afghanistan so before you start saying America has saved the world just remember that a lot of smaller country's have sacrificed just as much so that people can have a good life free from domination by sadistic mongrels.

Sorry if I sound pissed off but really......... saying the USA saved the world without any recognition of the English,Australians,Indians,Dutch,French,Irish,New Zealanders,Ghurkas,Polish,South Africans and a host of other country's is a bit tunnel visioned don't you think?
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:05 AM   #33
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Not cocky, just saying that we were virtually the only nation that didnt have a horse in the European Theater of war, without our involvement, Russia would have met with the full force of the Nazi War Machine and fallen hard. Im not denigrating the memories of the resistance fighters or the Allies but they were after-all fighting to regain lands the Germans took from them or trying to stop them from taking more. The USA was never really in danger of a German Invasion, we did send many thousands to fight in a land they had only heard of and they turned the tide back on Mr Hitler but with a great cost.

We had enough problems with a Japanese invasion, fighting both of those wars at once was a feat of awesomeness the world has never seen and I hope we never see again.
Do you know anything about the invilvement of Australia, New Zealand, and Britain in the war against the Japanese?
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:07 AM   #34
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i think it's safe to say, that every Allied nation bore a great loss in WWII to the Axis powers. we need to honor and remember those brave men, regardless of nationality. they died fighting a noble cause, the cause for the fight for freedom, and to free those being oppressed and being denied their freedom.

everyone suffered heavy losses, but we all gained from those brave souls.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:40 AM   #35
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Webley Fosberry McArthur also wouldn't recognise the efforts of the Australian Diggers in New Guinea and the Islands basically calling them cowards and worthless but we managed to hold and turn the Japs around in New Guinea and chase them back and also gave the Japs a real hiding at Milne Bay when they came ashore as we slaughtered them as the doors of their landing craft opened so by the time the USA arrived we'd all but beaten the Japs.

We got no recognition from McArthur for that.

We gave Rommel a smack in the nose at Tobruk and El Alamein along with the New Zealanders and POMs pushed Rommel out of Africa without any or very little American help.

In both world wars Aussie Diggers were respected by the Germans,Turks,Italians,Japanese for our fighting abilities and bravery in hard fighting and in WWI the Germans at Villiers Brentenoux basically surrendered when they found out that it was the Aussies fighting against them such was the fury the Diggers fought with giving no quarter.

In VietNam we fought the Battle of Long Tan rubber plantation where we fought an estimated 2500 Vietcong and killed at least 245 confirmed and lost 18 killed and 24 wounded with the help of New Zealand artillery.

Our Diggers have also featured fairly well in Iraq and Afghanistan so before you start saying America has saved the world just remember that a lot of smaller country's have sacrificed just as much so that people can have a good life free from domination by sadistic mongrels.

Sorry if I sound pissed off but really......... saying the USA saved the world without any recognition of the English,Australians,Indians,Dutch,French,Irish,New Zealanders,Ghurkas,Polish,South Africans and a host of other country's is a bit tunnel visioned don't you think?
Let's cross some 't's. The US did not engage Hitler until December 1941 mainly because the isolationist view had prevailed at the time. It is as old as the Republic itself, and is alive and well today. There are people who feel that we did the world a huge favor by fighting WW2 across the Atlantic. Please take it in the context.

It is true that there was no immediate threat of a Nazi invasion when we went to war in North Africa and Europe. We could not, however, act any differently. Many people simply don't know or remember that Hitler declared war on us, not the other way around. If he had been allowed to swallow the UK and push Stalin beyond the Ural Mountains, all hell would have broken loose in the Pacific. The US government could not take that chance. So we did what we were destined to do, not as a favor to anyone in particular, but with such energy and sacrifice that seemed disproportional for a great power with completely intact homeland.

This is an emotional argument for some, and as you know when emotion enters the discussion, facts and logic run for their lives. What happened, happened, we are not going to change it. Winston Churchill considered us one and the same, as the English speaking peoples.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:35 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by hairbear1 View Post
Webley Fosberry McArthur also wouldn't recognise the efforts of the Australian Diggers in New Guinea and the Islands basically calling them cowards and worthless but we managed to hold and turn the Japs around in New Guinea and chase them back and also gave the Japs a real hiding at Milne Bay when they came ashore as we slaughtered them as the doors of their landing craft opened so by the time the USA arrived we'd all but beaten the Japs.

We got no recognition from McArthur for that.

We gave Rommel a smack in the nose at Tobruk and El Alamein along with the New Zealanders and POMs pushed Rommel out of Africa without any or very little American help.

In both world wars Aussie Diggers were respected by the Germans,Turks,Italians,Japanese for our fighting abilities and bravery in hard fighting and in WWI the Germans at Villiers Brentenoux basically surrendered when they found out that it was the Aussies fighting against them such was the fury the Diggers fought with giving no quarter.

In VietNam we fought the Battle of Long Tan rubber plantation where we fought an estimated 2500 Vietcong and killed at least 245 confirmed and lost 18 killed and 24 wounded with the help of New Zealand artillery.

Our Diggers have also featured fairly well in Iraq and Afghanistan so before you start saying America has saved the world just remember that a lot of smaller country's have sacrificed just as much so that people can have a good life free from domination by sadistic mongrels.

Sorry if I sound pissed off but really......... saying the USA saved the world without any recognition of the English,Australians,Indians,Dutch,French,Irish,New Zealanders,Ghurkas,Polish,South Africans and a host of other country's is a bit tunnel visioned don't you think?
Sorry HB, Not sure how I could have forgotten the Aussies, they have been amazing allies of the US forever. I apologize for being so single minded but the last years seem to have pissed me off longtime. The US has been the lead element in way too many battles around the globe in the war against terrorism and its getting old really fast. Thousands of dead, tens of thousands of injured for life and hundreds of billions of dollars and were not much better off today than when it all began. I know weve had allies in these wars but it does seem that the US has carried the lions share of the load far too often.

The final straw for me was the group picture of everyone hugging and celebrating D-Day with the world leaders standing together "United". The Twisted Irony of Merkle brokering a conversation between BHO and Putin on D-Day was more than I could take.

The US has stretched our supply, battle lines and defense posture across the globe for over half a century and we seem to only get crap for that. We literally have more people serving our Armed forces in foreign lands than nearly any nation has military serving period (cept China). Its not just wars, nearly every catastrophic natural disaster on the planet has the US coming in to unphuck that which is nearly unphuckable to the tune of billions in aid and at least a few dead Americans sent back as a thank you. I didnt see much of that offered to the US when the WTC attacks happened or NO was flushed into the Gulf (the Saudi Prince offered a couple million for the WTC, Thanks Princey but no thanks).

I do apologize for my nationalistic diatribe and praise all that have bravely fought beside our citizens. They are hero's and should be held in the highest regard in their nations, they didnt surrender and learn German, they fought to regain their homes. Some like the Aussies fought because it was the right thing to do even if they werent in imminent danger as long as they stayed out.


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Do you know anything about the invilvement of Australia, New Zealand, and Britain in the war against the Japanese?
MF-Again, many apologies, the Aussies were and are likely our greatest partners and allies against foes past and present, (Britain has been a close second other than the lead up to the revolutionary war thing). I dont dare leave out the Canadians in this either, our border partners have been there when we needed them more than once.

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Old 06-09-2014, 11:16 AM   #37
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Let's cross some 't's. The US did not engage Hitler until December 1941 mainly because the isolationist view had prevailed at the time. It is as old as the Republic itself, and is alive and well today. There are people who feel that we did the world a huge favor by fighting WW2 across the Atlantic. Please take it in the context.

It is true that there was no immediate threat of a Nazi invasion when we went to war in North Africa and Europe. We could not, however, act any differently. Many people simply don't know or remember that Hitler declared war on us, not the other way around. If he had been allowed to swallow the UK and push Stalin beyond the Ural Mountains, all hell would have broken loose in the Pacific. The US government could not take that chance. So we did what we were destined to do, not as a favor to anyone in particular, but with such energy and sacrifice that seemed disproportional for a great power with completely intact homeland.

This is an emotional argument for some, and as you know when emotion enters the discussion, facts and logic run for their lives. What happened, happened, we are not going to change it. Winston Churchill considered us one and the same, as the English speaking peoples.

The USA entered both wars late not saying that it wasn't unwelcomed because it was a big boost to the war effort.
The 2nd WW was basically the Japs trying to knock the USA out before it even had a chance to start but that ended badly and because Hitler was a ally of Japan he went in and declared war on you blokes.

The USA was supplying England with components for war but was trying to stay neutral until the Pearl Harbour attacks which some high ranking Japanese opposed namely Yamamato because he'd already seen America's industrial strength well before 1941 and advised the Japanese High Command not to attack but had to comply if he wanted to keep his head on his shoulders.

Hitler was hoping to give England a fair touch up and hoped they'd sue for peace and then become allies and then join the Germans and attack Russia something Patton wanted to do when Germany was defeated but was prevented from doing by the US govt.

Yes it can be an emotional thing but at the end of the day without the USA's help in industrial strength and arms things may have turned out a far lot worse for a lot of country's.

At the moment I think the USA is making a big mistake like Hitler did in trying to fight too many battle fronts instead of fighting smaller wars and winning them before stretching out and fighting another war.
It gets to stretching men and supplies on too many fronts causing all sorts of problems.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:27 AM   #38
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Again, this is more about who starts wars more often than not than anything else. Japan, China, England, Germany, France and Russia have cost us all countless lives and generations of fortunes over thousands of years. The rest of the world has been forced to defend or protect them all too often.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:48 PM   #39
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I worked with some Aussie soldiers in Iraq for a couple of weeks great guys they all were but I really couldn't understand half if them they were almost as bad as the Brits that had the heavy cockney accent. I felt like they were talking about me lol. I also worked with Macedonian special forces (guys had more balls than brains) and some Israeli specialists that were in country. Every single one has my respect they were all awesome dudes and I will never forget there participation as our allies in almost every modern conflict


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Old 06-09-2014, 09:32 PM   #40
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At the moment I think the USA is making a big mistake like Hitler did in trying to fight too many battle fronts instead of fighting smaller wars and winning them before stretching out and fighting another war.
It gets to stretching men and supplies on too many fronts causing all sorts of problems.
Spot on there by god. We cant finish one before were in another and if our Pres had his choice we would be in 4 more. Our borders are so porous its like they dont even exist. We try to fix too much for too many but we have more than our hands full of problems that need fixen right here.

God bless our soldiers and allies then and now. I hope we can bring them all home alive soon!
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