Submersible pumps..?
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:58 PM   #1
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Default Submersible pumps..?

I bought a new deep well submersible pump and added a (PENTEK) protector
System to it because I have a slow recovery time on the well .! These pumps
Are not cheap so to keep it from over amping , the protection .

It's got a memory and self protection against (brown-out , surge , dry well , etc)
It keeps clicking out after some normal use age and "run light and cal light are blinking in unison .! I've checked for voltage problem , found none.!

Is it possible I blew the blatter in the the pressure tank..?

Help.! Also ,the system has been up and running some two months and whatever happened , happened today.!

I just want to get back to my camp and I do value your opinions !

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:00 AM   #2
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Go to the pressure tank. Look for a Schrader valve (looks like valve stem on a tire) briefly depress center stem. If you get a face full of water, bladder is shot. Should be nothing in there but air.

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:11 AM   #3
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I can't help ya. Sorry.

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Go to the pressure tank. Look for a Schrader valve (looks like valve stem on a tire) briefly depress center stem. If you get a face full of water, bladder is shot. Should be nothing in there but air.
Well , thanks for that and nope , that's about all that's left to check and it is all old steel plumbing and you know and I know , what's about to happen , don't we? I decided when I awoke that nothing is going to get me down today..!

The phone is unplugged , if I need water , I can prime it and sill get maybe ...4 gals. Of water per prime till the plumbing loses all pressure.! With paper and pencil , I will make a list of things I know are going to break and in the very near future will fix it..! . Not today , today is a day of my own making , a holiday of sorts.! It is too beautiful to ruin chasing old plumbing.!

Last Sunday ,there was not a leaf on a tree..! Today , I can barely see the other mountain top through the new lush growth..! Before my very eyes , that fast , I
Hear and see the forest come alive .! It's too dang nice to ruin it and since it is me and just my dog here , we Kool..!
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:24 AM   #5
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When you are out of water check the pressure on that Schrader valve, it should be 3-5 pounds less than the pressure your pump turns on at. If you have no pressure at that valve when you have no water, then yes your pressure tank is the problem. If you are loosing prime it is probably the foot valve. This is at the end of the line in the well below the pump. It is what keeps the pump primed.

Most of my experience is with shallow well and jet pumps, and as I think about it a submersible might not have a foot valve, because it is submerged in the water.

That said my money is on a waterlogged tank (no air pressure) or a leak in the pipe in the well between the pump and the tank. I have dealt with both and sometimes they are hard to diagnose.

Also sometimes the pressure tanks just leak off over time. When you have no water check the pressure at the Schrader valve if it is not within 5 pounds of where your pump turns on add air until it is. If this solves your problem, good. If you have the same problem a week later it is the tank.

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Old 05-14-2013, 04:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dango View Post
I bought a new deep well submersible pump and added a (PENTEK) protector
System to it because I have a slow recovery time on the well .! These pumps
Are not cheap so to keep it from over amping , the protection .

It's got a memory and self protection against (brown-out , surge , dry well , etc)
It keeps clicking out after some normal use age and "run light and cal light are blinking in unison .! I've checked for voltage problem , found none.!

Is it possible I blew the blatter in the the pressure tank..?

Help.! Also ,the system has been up and running some two months and whatever happened , happened today.!

I just want to get back to my camp and I do value your opinions !
You mean a Pump Saver? Maybe this will help (this is the same system I have) here is the troubleshooting guide for if both lights are blinking simultaneously-

RAPID CYCLE
:
The PumpSaver
®
has shut down
on rapid cycling. Power must be
removed and reapplied to reset
the unit.

Corrective action is as follows:

Check for a broken bladder in the
pressure tank (if used), or check
for a defective pressure or float
switch.


Here is a link to the installation, calibration and troubleshooting guide: http://symcom.com/documentation/inst/pdf/II_236-P_A1.pdf

Also, a deep well submersible pump does have a foot valve if correctly installed. This is more to keep the head up to the surface rather than letting it drop down to the static water level when the pump is not running. Takes less time that way when the well comes back on for water to get to the faucet.

So, check your pressure tank and your pressure or float switch (probably you have a pressure switch?)


F4U has good advice. A pressure tank can and does lose pressure over time. If there is no air behind the bladder then the pressure tank can't work as it is supposed to. I actually think that the air pressure should be much more than 3 to 4 psi., I think it should be more like 35 or 40 psi when there is no water pressure behind it. With water pressure it should read between your cut-in and cut-out on the pressure switch.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post
You mean a Pump Saver? Maybe this will help (this is the same system I have) here is the troubleshooting guide for if both lights are blinking simultaneously-

RAPID CYCLE
:
The PumpSaver
®
has shut down
on rapid cycling. Power must be
removed and reapplied to reset
the unit.

Corrective action is as follows:

Check for a broken bladder in the
pressure tank (if used), or check
for a defective pressure or float
switch.


Here is a link to the installation, calibration and troubleshooting guide: http://symcom.com/documentation/inst/pdf/II_236-P_A1.pdf

Also, a deep well submersible pump does have a foot valve if correctly installed. This is more to keep the head up to the surface rather than letting it drop down to the static water level when the pump is not running. Takes less time that way when the well comes back on for water to get to the faucet.

So, check your pressure tank and your pressure or float switch (probably you have a pressure switch?)


F4U has good advice. A pressure tank can and does lose pressure over time. If there is no air behind the bladder then the pressure tank can't work as it is supposed to. I actually think that the air pressure should be much more than 3 to 4 psi., I think it should be more like 35 or 40 psi when there is no water pressure behind it. With water pressure it should read between your cut-in and cut-out on the pressure switch.

Hope this helps.
Viking I must have written poorly, I meant 3 to 5 pounds below the cut in pressure of the pump, as in if your pump is set at 30-50 the empty pressure of the tank should be 25 lbs. If it is 40-60 the empty pressure should be 35 lbs. If the empty pressure is more than the cut in pressure you will run out of water before the pump kicks on.

I am by no means a pump expert especially on submersibles. I grew up on a farm with a 25 foot deep hand dug well. I have been at the bottom of that well knee deep in water digging at the bottom because it wasn't refilling as it should. I have rebuilt the pumps 6 or 8 times because sediment from the well wears them out prematurely. I grew up with the fear that the well would go dry in the middle of a shower because it would in august.

My favorite story about this is before I was married I attended an out of town funeral with my future wife and her family, being that we were not yet married I was to share a room with my future brother in law. I am so used to not wasting water that I was showered, shaved, dressed, and ready to go out the door in less time than my future bil spent in the shower.

That said , when I built my house I made sure I could shower for 2 or 3 hours without running out of water. lol
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:17 AM   #8
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Viking I must have written poorly, I meant 3 to 5 pounds below the cut in pressure of the pump, as in if your pump is set at 30-50 the empty pressure of the tank should be 25 lbs. If it is 40-60 the empty pressure should be 35 lbs. If the empty pressure is more than the cut in pressure you will run out of water before the pump kicks on.

I am by no means a pump expert especially on submersibles. I grew up on a farm with a 25 foot deep hand dug well. I have been at the bottom of that well knee deep in water digging at the bottom because it wasn't refilling as it should. I have rebuilt the pumps 6 or 8 times because sediment from the well wears them out prematurely. I grew up with the fear that the well would go dry in the middle of a shower because it would in august.

My favorite story about this is before I was married I attended an out of town funeral with my future wife and her family, being that we were not yet married I was to share a room with my future brother in law. I am so used to not wasting water that I was showered, shaved, dressed, and ready to go out the door in less time than my future bil spent in the shower.

That said , when I built my house I made sure I could shower for 2 or 3 hours without running out of water. lol
I am fortunate to have a 5000 gallon holding tank that fills automatically with float switches I have set so they turn on the well pump when the water is down 500 gallons (with 4500 still in the tank which I can use while making repairs) then shut off when it is full again. I have a monitor light that tells me when the well pump is running so I can see if it has been running for too long. I intended to run another switch with a flashing red warning light that would come on when (if) the water level gets down to 4400 gallons but my wife made me stop- said it was going to cost too much. I figure I could have completed the last element for about $50- most of which is the cost of the float switch.

The worst part is that about 6 months after I finished the automatic fill system (without the low water warning light) somebody closed the fill valve to the tank and the well pump burned out so we had to replace the submersible pump and I put in a Pump Saver at the same time. If I had had the warning light in place we would have had ample warning that something was wrong long before the pump failed and would not have had to spend a couple of thousand on repairs/replacing the pump.

What pisses me off is after all of this she still didn't want me to put in the low water warning light because with the Pump Saver "we wouldn't need it". So now our low water warning system is running out of water entirely.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:52 AM   #9
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Well , thanks and that is the exact protector I have with the book in my hand , even same trouble shooting page..! Yeap , it is the pressure tank and the only thing stopping me , it is such a great day and unplugging the phone has made my day so much better..,! Just soooo mellow.!

I 'll fix it and thanks..!

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Old 05-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post

I am fortunate to have a 5000 gallon holding tank that fills automatically with float switches I have set so they turn on the well pump when the water is down 500 gallons (with 4500 still in the tank which I can use while making repairs) then shut off when it is full again. I have a monitor light that tells me when the well pump is running so I can see if it has been running for too long. I intended to run another switch with a flashing red warning light that would come on when (if) the water level gets down to 4400 gallons but my wife made me stop- said it was going to cost too much. I figure I could have completed the last element for about $50- most of which is the cost of the float switch.

The worst part is that about 6 months after I finished the automatic fill system (without the low water warning light) somebody closed the fill valve to the tank and the well pump burned out so we had to replace the submersible pump and I put in a Pump Saver at the same time. If I had had the warning light in place we would have had ample warning that something was wrong long before the pump failed and would not have had to spend a couple of thousand on repairs/replacing the pump.

What pisses me off is after all of this she still didn't want me to put in the low water warning light because with the Pump Saver "we wouldn't need it". So now our low water warning system is running out of water entirely.
Sometimes you have to ask for forgiveness instead of permission!!! Although when I was single I didn't have to ask for either .... hmmmm
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