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Old 01-22-2013, 09:25 PM   #41
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family situations are not illegal if the gun is going to reside in the same home.
a wife and a husband on one account living at the same address is ok.
mother daughter under the same roof?
i dont see the problem.

the problem i do see is.....either youre an african or youre an american. africa is a contenient. so is america.

youre either a north american or a south american, which would make you either hispanic or indian in your roots. im a wasp, so im of european decent. i was born here in america. im an american of european decent. do you see people calling wasps european americans? no.
american of african decent is the proper term that should be used if youre refering to blacks or negroes in america.

and dont pull the race card thing. this is common knowledge and very pc.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bobski View Post
family situations are not illegal if the gun is going to reside in the same home.
It is my understanding that the italicized part is not relevant. I could be incorrect; do you happen to have that page on the BATF's website dogeared?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:43 PM   #43
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its been a while, but i'd have to dig.

part of the computer ffl check grid flags addresses as well as names. odds are, if the husband is a felon and the wife is living there too, it would flag the wifes purchase.
so odds are, if both mother or daughters address come up clean, it goes thru.

case in point, family members dont have to sell guns to each other under one roof.
if your dad dies, it becomes your moms property or whoever is in that home as law dictates in will or executrix order.

i mean seriously, does daddy sell his gun to his young son when he passes it down? no.

if momma wants a gun, and decides to pass it down to daughter, as long as she remains in that state or follows local laws as to registration, its fine.

it falls under a certain heirloom law.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:46 PM   #44
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I couldn't find it on the BATF webmaze; i will look further. I don't think the "under the same roof" applies though.


edit* Instructions for 4473: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2008/10/100308-atf-important-notice-to-ffls-sample-form.pdf
closest i could find.

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:16 AM   #45
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i cant begin to tell you how many hundreds of guns my wife and i bought on the same credit card. to think otherwise is kinda crazy.

and too, the original poster was just looking over the shoulder. he didnt do the transacting. how was he to know if both mom and daughters names werent on the same account and mom was just asking for her daughter to give him her card, since they were the same account>?

no one knows, but i bet a dollar to donut, the dealer knew and obviously it went thru.

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Old 01-23-2013, 05:33 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Renegade44 View Post
While my wife and I were at a LGS we witnessed a Straw purchase. And African American woman and her daughter in her twenties were checking out in line in front of us. Background check had come back clean on the mother purchasing the gun. She hands her credit card to the dealer and says this is my daughters credit card. Then proceeds to tell her daughter to show her drivers license for ID clarification of card. The dealer looks puzzled at both then proceeds with checkout.
To me that was a red flag right there. I'm not saying it wasn't for the mother, but any question or suspicions arise and they are to reject the sale. That was suspicious to myself, wife, and the two gentlemen standing behind me by observation of their facial expressions.
The dealer should have clarified by asking the mom "This purchase is for you, not your daughter, correct?", rather than looking puzzled and then proceeding. If the mom confirms that the purchase is for her then proceed. If she says "No. It is for my daughter." then the transaction should be cancelled.

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Originally Posted by earl1412 View Post
Isn't there a question on the 4473 form asking you if this purchase is for you or someone else? If this question was answered incorrectly, I do believe there is a criminal act being performed.
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Originally Posted by Jpyle View Post
Yes, the form asks if you are the actual purchaser of the firearm.
The purchaser is the one taking possession. Payment has nothing to do with it. Look at it this way; if you pay with a credit card it is the bank that is actually making the payment, not the person who has their name on the card.

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Originally Posted by orangello View Post
Interesting. I wonder, were they trying to make sure the paperwork was in the mother's name since the firearm would be in her possesion, or were they doing this to avoid a failed background check/NICS call on the daughter?

My dear Mother bought me a pistol for Christmas; she picked it out (wrong model), filled out the 4473, passed the NICS call, and paid for it (TOO DAMN MUCH TO THOSE THIEVIN BASTIDS at GANDER MOUNTAIN OF HATTIESBURG, MS). She then wrapped it and put it under the tree. I opened it, praised it highly, and prepared to take the visibly scuffed & shopworn firearm back to those THIEVIN BASTIDS AT GANDER MOUNTAIN OF HATTIESBURG, MS. Mom did it correctly. She bought the firearm correctly and legally and THEN gifted it to me. I had to explain this to guess who, those THIEVIN BASTIDS AT GANDER MOUNTAIN OF HATTIESBURG, MS, when i took the firearm back to complain about its condition. After being informed on the telephone that they didn't usually do returns on firearms but would in this situation, AND waiting a long ass time for them to get around to checking the firearm's condition upon its return to their DEN OF LIES, they decided that she must have signed their form indicating that she had examined the firearm and was accepting custody of the firearm and that i was stuck with it in its OBVIOUSLY SHOPWORN AND MINORLY SCUFFED CONDITION. I finally harassed them into crediting her card a $50 adjustment due to the PISS POOR condition of the sale.

In short, buy for a close relative, THEN gift the gun. If they want it "in their name" have it transferred to them by your local FFL (why?).

Also, do not shop at those THIEVIN BASTIDS AT GANDER MOUNTAIN OF HATTIESBURG, MS.
You sound bitter. Are you bitter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski View Post
family situations are not illegal if the gun is going to reside in the same home.
a wife and a husband on one account living at the same address is ok.
mother daughter under the same roof?
i dont see the problem.
Not necessarily true. My dad bought a revolver for him and mom back in 1982, I have the receipt and all for it. Dad died back in September and now mom has to do paperwork on the gun for it to be legal even though when he purchased it there was no requirement for any paperwork and the purchase was made for the both of them. This is in CA though. So, I figure that if I get divorced the guns never became community property because you cannot have co-ownership of firearms in CA!

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the problem i do see is.....either youre an african or youre an american. africa is a contenient. so is america.

youre either a north american or a south american, which would make you either hispanic or indian in your roots. im a wasp, so im of european decent. i was born here in america. im an american of european decent. do you see people calling wasps european americans? no.
american of african decent is the proper term that should be used if youre refering to blacks or negroes in america.

and dont pull the race card thing. this is common knowledge and very pc.
Worked with a South African guy who emigrated here and he would tell everybody he was African American. He was as white as they come (being of Dutch ancestry going way back when South Africa was colonized) so people would question his claim, to which he would respond by producing his SA passport. Can't argue with that! Unfortunately he was also an A-hole racist too.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
'


Now that one clearly has questions that deserve reasonable answers before the weapon was sold, while it may have been completely legal, it sounds fishy. There are some grey areas that are less grey than others. I still believe innocent until proven guilty is the best policy, otherwise were chasing too many shadows and seeing ghosts behind every doorway.
The transaction looked rather shady? But I normally mind my own business and keep my nose out of others business.
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