So . . . am I dead meat? - Page 6
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:50 PM   #51
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Well, if you were to become dead meat, nothing much would really want to eat you; you are a possum after-all.

Maybe you should look into making your home a less interesting target.

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Old 09-20-2013, 10:34 PM   #52
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Interesting, and just how many tours did you do that brought you to this conclusion?
I'm not sure what that has to do with the tolerances issue. Target rifles have tighter tolerances so that they can have increased accuracy. The downside to this is they don't respond as well to dirt.

I never for a minute assert that I have combat experience. But I do have plenty of experience dragging an M16 through dirt and mud, not to mention putting hundreds of rounds through them at a time on the range without cleaning. I have never, after all that abuse, been able to pick up the rifle and not have at least one issue in a magazine.

M16s are finicky weapons during the best of times. AR 15s which were specifically made for target shooting (mind you, not all AR 15s are target rifles - I'm not saying they are) are even worse and usually have to be babied to run optimally.

I'm not trying to say I'm an expert or that I have combat experience. What I'm saying is basically common knowledge, though.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:01 AM   #53
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Also, most people's ARs are target rifles. They wouldn't do very well in a full-on combat situation. Even M16s with loose tolerances need to be cleaned constantly. A target style AR15 doesn't stand a chance.
Most ARs sold today are M4geries not target rifles. The gas length may be midlength but otherwise they are similar to the M4. And if you buy quality you will have a reliable rifle.


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I'm not sure what that has to do with the tolerances issue. Target rifles have tighter tolerances so that they can have increased accuracy. The downside to this is they don't respond as well to dirt.

I never for a minute assert that I have combat experience. But I do have plenty of experience dragging an M16 through dirt and mud, not to mention putting hundreds of rounds through them at a time on the range without cleaning. I have never, after all that abuse, been able to pick up the rifle and not have at least one issue in a magazine.

M16s are finicky weapons during the best of times. AR 15s which were specifically made for target shooting (mind you, not all AR 15s are target rifles - I'm not saying they are) are even worse and usually have to be babied to run optimally.

I'm not trying to say I'm an expert or that I have combat experience. What I'm saying is basically common knowledge, though.

I disagree again. I carried the M16 in Vietnam in 1968, some worked some didn't. Mine did but I took care of it. Cleaned it with gasoline, T-shirts, shoe laces, you name it.

But that was almost 50 years ago. Today's AR-15 is a much better rifle, a much more reliable rifle. I would have loved to have my BCM or Daniel Defense or even PSA back in 1968. And no, they don't need to be babied.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #54
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I'd prefer this to be my "Cowboy" theme song.


http://youtu.be/PBPivqpSm_w
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #55
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I'd prefer this to be my "Cowboy" theme song.


http://youtu.be/PBPivqpSm_w
Yep, you're dead meat.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:52 PM   #56
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If you think you're going to take on people carrying rifles and carbines with a .45, I think you're highly delusional.

If you take your .30-06 with you and don't engage in any firefights you don't absolutely have to be in, you might live for awhile.

Pistol is not equivalent to rifle no matter who is carrying the pistol and who is carrying the rifle.

You may not like AR-15's or AK-47's, but they're pretty much a fact of life and you can bet that any group of serious armed criminals is going to have access to one or both of those platforms. They don't have to be crack shots or special forces ninja assassins, just good enough to hit you or near you. That's generally about the time that all the pistolero bravado goes by the wayside and you realize just how seriously out-gunned you are.

Put another way, anyone who lived through a Soviet invasion who wasn't carrying an AK-47 at the outset was carrying one as soon as one became available.

I don't like the fact that I have to carry a gun, period, in a so-called civilized society but I'm also smart enough to realize that the only reason there's any civility is because a lot of people, stupid people but people just the same, believe in the notion of "control" and "order".

Once you can square what goes on in your head with what actually happens all around you, then you can start to understand the nature of the problem and how to go about resolving it.

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Old 09-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #57
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Y'all know, my original idea, admittedly not set out well, was not to appear in a regular war zone, with real armies, armed with the most moden equipment, but in a zombie apocalypse type of situation against irregular troops, most of whom would presumably have AR-15's or AK 47. I have no illusions, as I specified a couple of time, of lasting long against regular, trained troops with all the fancy new gizmos, regardless of which type of rifle I am or am not carrying.
s.
And, as stated several times, I am not arguing the superiority of a hand gun vs. rifle as a combat arm. I AM saying that within 50 yards the weapons I feed most proficient with, in terms of accuracy, reliability, familiarity, speed of reloading, etc. that I own are 1911's. If I felt there anywhere near a reasonable possibility that North Korean troops would be attacking Pittsburgh in the near future, I would be buying different weapons than I am no. I am not sure that wide spread armed conflict near my home is likely enough for me to stay up nights worrying that I do not have an AR-15.

I am keeping my eye out for the right deal on a M1A, which means I will probably buy something completely different. That's the way it happens. I'm looking for one particular gun, then find a smokin' deal on another.

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Old 09-22-2013, 01:20 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin

Most ARs sold today are M4geries not target rifles. The gas length may be midlength but otherwise they are similar to the M4. And if you buy quality you will have a reliable rifle.

I disagree again. I carried the M16 in Vietnam in 1968, some worked some didn't. Mine did but I took care of it. Cleaned it with gasoline, T-shirts, shoe laces, you name it.

But that was almost 50 years ago. Today's AR-15 is a much better rifle, a much more reliable rifle. I would have loved to have my BCM or Daniel Defense or even PSA back in 1968. And no, they don't need to be babied.
I hope you're right that most ARs are not target guns, for all the people talking of using them defensively or in a "SHTF" situation.

I'm very glad your M16 worked in Viet Nam when it is most crucial that it does. That hasn't been my experience, but then again I have a feeling the rifles that are issued out to troops nowadays are treated like sh*t by most Marines or Soldiers. A lot of people just drop it in the solvent tank to clean it, when the time comes, and don't worry about properly cleaning it or lubing it back up after the solvent tank.

I personally never shoot my rifle bone-dry, but I know a lot of people who don't care, so they do.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:32 AM   #59
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With all due respect JW357,

I most throw a flag on the play. As of 2009 (the last year of my active duty), the solvent tank was "outlawed" by the Department of The Army because it was causing damage to the Extractor cushion (the little rubber piece inside the extractor spring), and to the plastic material that is still used on the M16A2 and the M4 series rifles. Now having said that, are they still being used? Possibly, but at the monetary expense of the Soldier caught using it.

The CLP that the troops are using now is a thinner type than the original CLP. It resists dirt and residue build up that the original formula used to do.

Thank you for your time.


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I hope you're right that most ARs are not target guns, for all the people talking of using them defensively or in a "SHTF" situation.

I'm very glad your M16 worked in Viet Nam when it is most crucial that it does. That hasn't been my experience, but then again I have a feeling the rifles that are issued out to troops nowadays are treated like sh*t by most Marines or Soldiers. A lot of people just drop it in the solvent tank to clean it, when the time comes, and don't worry about properly cleaning it or lubing it back up after the solvent tank.
I personally never shoot my rifle bone-dry, but I know a lot of people who don't care, so they do.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:35 AM   #60
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With all due respect JW357,

I most throw a flag on the play. As of 2009 (the last year of my active duty), the solvent tank was "outlawed" by the Department of The Army because it was causing damage to the Extractor cushion (the little rubber piece inside the extractor spring), and to the plastic material that is still used on the M16A2 and the M4 series rifles. Now having said that, are they still being used? Possibly, but at the monetary expense of the Soldier caught using it.

The CLP that the troops are using now is a thinner type than the original CLP. It resists dirt and residue build up that the original formula used to do.

Thank you for your time.
I didn't know that about the Army. The last time I was at the range was early 2012. I never use the solvent tank, but I have seen people using it before. I didn't notice anyone using it that time, but I did in 2011.

Mind, I'm a Marine. We have different regulations than the Army does. The armorers I have talked to don't appreciate people using the tank, but I've never heard anyone straight out being told not to.
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