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Old 02-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #21961
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Take it one cigarette at a time, KYT. DON'T say "I don't know if it will last". It's a tough journey but break it down into very small journeys. If you look at the whole picture sometimes it is overwhelming and you feel you can't do it. Just quit one cigarette at a time.

What the heck? A success is a success. You're doing good and you know it, Vikingdad.
Yes, you would be amazed now much that thought process will cause you to fail. Remember the little engine that could? When I get really frustrated with something and start telling myself or can't be fixed or whatever, I quit trying because the second I think that, I've already given up.

I agree, that's awesome Viking, you clearly don't need aa some people do.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:43 PM   #21962
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Well, I'm going to defend those "dam meetins". There's a couple down the street from me who I've been friends with ever since I moved into my home. They are very dear to me and helped me through some difficult times such as divorce and all the help a single parent would need. Our oldest sons were best friends for all their lives and even were room mates for several years before finding their life mates.

The man, I'll call him Dave, was a terrible drunk. He was a farmer and in the winter he'd drink heavily. Sometimes he'd go out and be gone for days. One Spring he never sobered up enough to plant his fields. His wife did it, after working all day as the Dean of Horticulture at the local Community College. I told her to let the fields lie dormant and she said she couldn't because her name was tied up in the farm, too. She filed for divorce.

Dave is a veteran and went to a VA hospital to sober up. He was there 3 months. He had seizures, delirium tremens, etc. He went to counseling, the family went to counseling with him on occasion, attended family nights, etc. He came out a whole new man. Wonderful, kind hearted, loving Father, husband, etc.

Dave joined AA when he came home. He went to meetings 5 days a week. He sponsored other people trying to quit drinking. Sometimes going to help them at all hours of the day or night. His new friends were the AA members.

Every Spring they host a huge fish fry at their home. The wife's Dad is retired and lives on the banks of the Mississippi River and fishes all the time. Their fish fry guests are mostly AA members, family and neighborhood friends. I'll tell you, those AA members are so much fun to hang with. They are sober and humble, but, man, do they have some wild stories to tell of the times when they were drinking. I love going to the parties where the AA people are going to be. They all hug each other, support each other, encourage each other.

Don't diss the AA meetings. They are a wonderful support system for those who need it. It has changed many lives and saved many marriages. Not to mention gives many children a loving home in which to grow up. I don't consider Dave "weak" at all because he attends meetings. I admire Dave for the strength and courage it took to sober up to save his marriage and be a good father to his sons. And he's one heck of a guy to hang around with.

Thank you for that, MM. Apology accepted.
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Though I am not a big fan of back surgery, particularly on younger people, but I think the decision for you is clear.
Yeah if you're enough of an alcoholic, quitting on your own can be a very bad idea. I had a friend who drank constantly when he got home. He was getting help and for some reason his girlfriend decided she knew better than the nurses and people that were helping him. He said he thought he was going to die before she finally to him to the er...
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #21963
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Getting a serious case of cabin fever. My wife got sick Sat night with what looks like stomach flu. She shared so I woke up with it at 2 am Mon. Pretty nasty. I have not been out since. I dont think I will be making the Sat hike tomorrow and have not been paddling either. Rotting away in front of the computer when I am not in the bathroom. Tip; how long did it take you to recover?

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:25 PM   #21964
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I didn't have any normal stomach flu. Actually, the GI problems weren't even that bad. It's taken me nearly three weeks, and I'm still not back 100%.

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Old 02-22-2013, 06:26 PM   #21965
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I am going to break my silence now but first I would like to apologize to ya'll for some of my post , I will admit that i should not have posted certain things.
No worries, Mate! I think I can speak for most of us in saying that we worry about you. I personally do like to read about some of your antics, then there are the ones that leave me shaking my head and then still others that sort of piss me off. What the hell. It's better than getting pissed on, I say!

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Now that thats out of the way , Stopping somthing like alcohol , smoking drugs or meds is something to be proud of .
Ever think you might be addicted to adrenaline? You might think about that. Of course start out by working on the stuff you put into your body first, and then work your way from there (as it appears you are doing from the rest of your post).

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Yes your mind can get addicted to all of them but your body gets use to having it , it needs it and dang if it aint hell getting away from them , it can be a pure hell .
I had been on some very very strong meds for my back , stuff they usually only give terminal cancer patients and I almost hate my doc for it . it was getting tot he point where they just did not work anymore so I decided to just flat out stop.
I waited till I ran out so I would have nothing to fall back on and from what i have heard and seen on tv I figured the worse was coming .
It was a bit tough at first , you gotta train your mind and your body has to almost reset to start producing its own chemicals that the other substance replaced .
I was lucky , I got the doc to give me some non narc and it works better than the narc stuff ever did .
With that , I went to a back surgeon yesterday and its not good . From like l3 down all need to be fused , his words were
'' Your disc look like blown out tires , there is no injection or anything other than a pretty invasive surgery or pain management ''
It kinda shocked me , every other dr played off the situation .
So now I am faced with a 3 level fusion and 6 month recovery or being miserable .
I went through the back pain thing for 40 years. You know about that. Dodged the bullet on surgery. I had the same conversation with a neurosurgeon friend of mine when I asked him to take a look at my MRI films. He just shook his head after looking them over and said I was screwed. Fusion for 3 vertebra. I have made changes in my diet and started a bunch of supplements some of which that specifically target cellular inflammation (as is the case with diet- look into gluten-). I was scheduling the surgery a year and a half ago when I took a hard turn and went naturopathic.It worked so well for me that I have been off all prescription meds 100% for over a year now (including antibiotics and pain meds). I still see my regular doctor, and he is incredulous but supportive.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:29 PM   #21966
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Originally Posted by winds-of-change View Post
Well, I'm going to defend those "dam meetins". There's a couple down the street from me who I've been friends with ever since I moved into my home. They are very dear to me and helped me through some difficult times such as divorce and all the help a single parent would need. Our oldest sons were best friends for all their lives and even were room mates for several years before finding their life mates.

The man, I'll call him Dave, was a terrible drunk. He was a farmer and in the winter he'd drink heavily. Sometimes he'd go out and be gone for days. One Spring he never sobered up enough to plant his fields. His wife did it, after working all day as the Dean of Horticulture at the local Community College. I told her to let the fields lie dormant and she said she couldn't because her name was tied up in the farm, too. She filed for divorce.

Dave is a veteran and went to a VA hospital to sober up. He was there 3 months. He had seizures, delirium tremens, etc. He went to counseling, the family went to counseling with him on occasion, attended family nights, etc. He came out a whole new man. Wonderful, kind hearted, loving Father, husband, etc.

Dave joined AA when he came home. He went to meetings 5 days a week. He sponsored other people trying to quit drinking. Sometimes going to help them at all hours of the day or night. His new friends were the AA members.

Every Spring they host a huge fish fry at their home. The wife's Dad is retired and lives on the banks of the Mississippi River and fishes all the time. Their fish fry guests are mostly AA members, family and neighborhood friends. I'll tell you, those AA members are so much fun to hang with. They are sober and humble, but, man, do they have some wild stories to tell of the times when they were drinking. I love going to the parties where the AA people are going to be. They all hug each other, support each other, encourage each other.

Don't diss the AA meetings. They are a wonderful support system for those who need it. It has changed many lives and saved many marriages. Not to mention gives many children a loving home in which to grow up. I don't consider Dave "weak" at all because he attends meetings. I admire Dave for the strength and courage it took to sober up to save his marriage and be a good father to his sons. And he's one heck of a guy to hang around with.

What works for me is definitely not going to work for everybody. AA is absolutely a life saver for the vast majority of people who seek help there. I would strongly encourage anybody who needs help with addiction to explore AA. Do it today. Obviously, my mileage varies.
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"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
- Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:53 PM   #21967
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I am going to break my silence now but first I would like to apologize to ya'll for some of my post , I will admit that i should not have posted certain things .
I'm glad we did not run you off - - - I just felt you needed a little jolt to your perspective - - - I too like reading some of your exploits.

Have a great day and I wish you nothing but the best for the rest of your life!!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #21968
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The stories I heard growing up about my grandads drinking , Moms dad was the one of the sweetest men ever alive , he was also one of the meanest . It would get some bad for him that he would lay on the floor desperately trying to get the bugs off of him , course there were none but thats what it did to him . The other was just a dog and down talked everyone in the family but both grew into strong Christian men .
I never have had a taste for much alcohol , I MAY drink a corona or 2 once a year these days , A true alcoholic is a very sad thing to see not to mention all the dui related wrecks and fatalities we get in here .
I know Dad has helped a few of the younger kids get back on track or into church or whatever after getting impounded or wreck for dui and seeing them break down will get to you too .
AA I imagine is not much different than say a PTSD group , problems may be different but the support and function is the same . Watch Fight club lol .
Speaking of PTSD I found this this morning and found it interesting .

http://www.wral.com/-i-m-a-monster-veterans-alone-in-their-guilt/12137766/

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WASHINGTON — A veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, former Marine Capt. Timothy Kudo thinks of himself as a killer — and he carries the guilt every day."I can't forgive myself," he says. "And the people who can forgive me are dead."
With American troops at war for more than a decade, there's been an unprecedented number of studies into war zone psychology and an evolving understanding of post-traumatic stress disorder. Clinicians suspect some troops are suffering from what they call "moral injuries" — wounds from having done something, or failed to stop something, that violates their moral code.
Though there may be some overlap in symptoms, moral injuries aren't what most people think of as PTSD, the nightmares and flashbacks of terrifying, life-threatening combat events. A moral injury tortures the conscience; symptoms include deep shame, guilt and rage. It's not a medical problem, and it's unclear how to treat it, says retired Col. Elspeth Ritchie, former psychiatry consultant to the Army surgeon general.
"The concept ... is more an existentialist one," she says.
The Marines, who prefer to call moral injuries "inner conflict," started a few years ago teaching unit leaders to identify the problem. And the Defense Department has approved funding for a study among Marines at California's Camp Pendleton to test a therapy that doctors hope will ease guilt.
But a solution could be a long time off.
"PTSD is a complex issue," says Navy Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a Pentagon spokeswoman.
Killing in war is the issue for some troops who believe they have a moral injury, but Ritchie says it also can come from a range of experiences, such as guarding prisoners or watching Iraqis kill Iraqis as they did during the sectarian violence in 2006-2007.
"You may not have actually done something wrong by the law of war, but by your own humanity you feel that it's wrong," says Ritchie, now chief clinical officer at the District of Columbia's Department of Mental Health.
Kudo's remorse stems in part from the 2010 accidental killing of two Afghan teenagers on a motorcycle. His unit was fighting insurgents when the pair approached from a distance and appeared to be shooting as well.
Kudo says what Marines mistook for guns were actually "sticks and bindles, like you'd seen in old cartoons with hobos." What Marines thought were muzzle flashes were likely glints of light bouncing off the motorcycle's chrome.
"There's no day — whether it's in the shower or whether it's walking down the street ... that I don't think about things that happened over there," says Kudo, now a graduate student at New York University.
"Human beings aren't just turn-on, turn-off switches," Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis says, noting that moral injury is just a different name for a familiar military problem. "You're raised 'Thou shalt not kill,' but you do it for self-preservation or for your buddies."
Kudo never personally shot anyone. But he feels responsible for the deaths of the teens on the motorcycle. Like other officers who've spoken about moral injuries, he also feels responsible for deaths that resulted from orders he gave in other missions.
The hardest part, Kudo says, is that "nobody talks about it."
As executive officer of a Marine company, Kudo also felt inadequate when he had to comfort a subordinate grieving over the death of another Marine.
Dr. Brett Litz, a clinical psychologist with the Department of Veterans Affairs in Boston, sees moral injury, the loss of comrades and the terror associated with PTSD as a "three-legged stool" of troop suffering. Though there's little data on moral injury, he says a study asked soldiers seeking counseling for PTSD in Texas what their main problem was; it broke down to "roughly a third, a third and a third" among those with fear, those with loss issues and those with moral injury.
The raw number of people who have moral injuries also isn't known. It's not an official diagnosis for purposes of getting veteran benefits, though it's believed by some doctors that many vets with moral injuries are getting care on a diagnosis of PTSD — care that wouldn't specifically fit their problem.
Like PTSD, which could affect an estimated 20 percent of troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, moral injury is not experienced by all troops.
"It's in the eye of the beholder," says retired Navy Capt. William Nash, a psychiatrist who headed Marine Corps combat stress programs and has partnered with Litz on research. The vast majority of ground combat fighters may be able to pull the trigger without feeling they did something wrong, he says.
As the military has focused on fear-based PTSD, it hasn't paid enough attention to loss and moral injury, Litz and others believe. And that has hampered the development of strategies to help troops with those other problems and train them to avoid the problems in the first place, he says.
Lumping people into the PTSD category "renders soldiers automatically into mental patients instead of wounded souls," writes Iraq vet Tyler Boudreau, a former Marine captain and assistant operations officer to an infantry battalion.
Boudreau resigned his commission after having questions of conscience. He wrote in the Massachusetts Review, a literary magazine, that being diagnosed with PTSD doesn't account for nontraumatic events that are morally troubling: "It's far too easy for people at home, particularly those not directly affected by war ... to shed a disingenuous tear for the veterans, donate a few bucks and whisk them off to the closest shrink ... out of sight and out of mind" and leaving "no incentive in the community or in the household to engage them."
So what should be done?

"I don't think we know," Ritchie says.
Troops who express ethical or spiritual problems have long been told to see the chaplain. Chaplains see troops struggling with moral injury "at the micro level, down in the trenches," says Lt. Col. Jeffrey L. Voyles, licensed counselor and supervisor at the Army chaplain training program in Fort Benning, Ga. A soldier wrestling with the right or wrong of a particular war zone event might ask: "Do I need to confess this?" Or, Voyles says, a soldier will say he's "gone past the point of being redeemed, (the point where) God could forgive him" — and he uses language like this:
"I'm a monster."
"I let somebody down."
"I didn't do as much as I could do."
Some chaplains and civilian church organizations have been organizing community events where troops tell their stories, hoping that will help them re-integrate into society.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:00 PM   #21969
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Yeah if you're enough of an alcoholic, quitting on your own can be a very bad idea. I had a friend who drank constantly when he got home. He was getting help and for some reason his girlfriend decided she knew better than the nurses and people that were helping him. He said he thought he was going to die before she finally to him to the er...
Alcohol is the only drug that can literaly kill you if you quit cold turkey. If your enough of an alcoholic, it could cause your body to go into cardiac arrest.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:19 PM   #21970
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Alcohol is the only drug that can literaly kill you if you quit cold turkey. If your enough of an alcoholic, it could cause your body to go into cardiac arrest.
Does it take over a certain function of your body or chemical ?
I know with pain meds and I was worried about the amount mom had to take when she here with us but they way they explained it to me was you brain can only produce a certain amount of its own pain killer . When you add synthetic or alternate pain kill it helps boost it but over time your brain will stop making its own , kinda like a liberal , why should it work when something else is doing it for you .
An alcoholic is bad off when they will drink rubbing alcohol or cologne even air freshener , dad saw it alot when he was a prison guard .

Hell most anything can be addicting , even certain gun forums
NOOOO Im not a adrenalin junkie
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