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Old 07-03-2012, 04:20 AM   #13061
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Well put trip, we have the same training routine it appears.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:21 AM   #13062
RIP my good and faithful dog.
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Originally Posted by MobileMarine View Post
Winds I see where you are coming from but also try to see my point , I love my dogs very much , when they do bad they get disciplined just like kids do . I see it as saving his life , I hope he will think twice before he does it again b/c next time he will be put down , attack or react wont matter . I never hit them or anything else in any other place but the rearend .
I try very hard to keep the kids off or semi away from him , he is a bit of grumpy dog but his sister is the exact opposite , she plays fine with the kids but I as in me alone try to keep the kids off any and all animals till they get older but the wife lets them play with them and Im always on her about it . Even the wife will run up to a strange animal and try to pet it , wont think twice about it and like a little kid I gotta go run after her and stop her
No one can ever know what an animal will do , BUT kids can also get away or the parent can loose focus , if the dog or what ever Reacts in a poor manner then it should be punished , if it attacks then it needs to be dispatched asap either by the VET or a lead ball . I was playing with Evan and did not pay too much attention to the fog being where he was and I guess its partly my fault but he needs to learn if he messes with the kids its gonna be bad , simply telling him bad dog and putting him outside wont do a thing .
There is a huge difference between Abuse and Discipline . BTW the dog is fine and Im home now , Both dogs were inside and I calmly told them outside . Now I gotta deal with the wifey
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
That's something hoomans need to understand. Dogs are pack animals. The owner MUST be the alpha. You can get away with spoiling a small dog, at least until they bite a small child. But with bigger dogs, the ones that really can cause some damage, they have to know their place.

I don't really agree with physical discipline of dogs, as they are more psychological creatures than anything. But what works, works.

Some things that happen between me and dogs...
If I open a door, I'm going through it before the dog does.
If the dog is laying in the floor and I need to get by, I don't step over the dog, the dog WILL get up and move out of my way.
If I'm feeding them table scraps (only on special occasions) they don't get fed from the table, they wait until the people (ALL of them) are done eating, THEN it goes in their bowl.
If they want love and affection, I give it freely. But they will sit and not climb on me. If they lay down, the petting stops.
If a dog jumps on me, they get a sharp knee bump to the chest, not hard enough to hurt, but hard enough that they are knocked off of me. Repeated until desired results are achieved.
I prefer for my dogs to greet me by coming up and touching my hand, not by loud barking and flopping around on the floor and pissing everywhere.
Growling at a family member or friend gets the dog held on his back and a loud, stern "NO" with a finger shaken in his face.
Biting or "mouthing" during play means that play time is over immediately. That's what chew toys and tug ropes are for. I don't look like either one.
Chewing on non chew toy items gets that item smacked across the nose and another loud "NO".

This seems really simplistic, especially to those of us with kids, but dogs are simple animals. Unless there is something wrong in the dog's psyche, they WANT to please their alpha. Nothing makes them happier than to know their alpha is happy with them. And nothing breaks their heart more than to know your upset with them. They take it harder than young children do.
I have had dogs all my life. I am always Alpha Dog. I have never, ever beaten a dog. MM, if you say you discipline your dog like you would discipline your children I feel sorry for your children. You admitted to breaking drywall and tearing up trim in "disciplining" your dog. I don't hit my children and I raised three very responsible, kind, caring and successful children who know right from wrong. I had an Airedale that didn't particularly like children. Once he growled at my first born when the little one was learning to crawl. I lifted the dog up by his collar, shook him and yelled like I was going to kill him, put him in the garage for the rest of the day. When I let him back in and he layed down, I put my baby on the floor and let him crawl in the direction of the dog. The dog looked at the baby, got up and went upstairs. I praised the dog, did it a few more times and then made it a point to never let the dog alone with the child. The dog was often gated in the kitchen while the children played. I could step over the gate but the kids couldn't get in there. I would never hit or beat my children and I would never hit or beat a dog. But I do come on to the dogs strong in a language they can understand which is turning them on their backs and yelling, holding their scruffs or necks as in a simulated 'bite'. Also, I disagree that one can "spoil" a little dog because a small dog bite is just as unforgiveable as a large dog bite. I don't let my little dogs get away with anything. I have a Pug, a Papillon and a Border Collie. All have the same rules. In the past I've had Border Collies, an Airedale and fostered a Rottweiler. None were allowed any aggression but if they are startled and they react I gave them a "Bad Dog" pretty darned loud, a time out in their kennel and that was it. A startled reaction is not the same as an attack of aggression. If I sneak up behind you and scare you and you turn around with fists up, then I can't blame you for acting like that.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Next time you abuse your dog, I don't want to know about it. PM your friends if you feel you must let others know. If I were you, I would be embarassed I acted as strongly as you did and tore up the house while "disciplining" my dog.

Trip, your philosophy is pretty close to mine. I don't believe there is ever any need or anything is taught to a dog or a child by physical discipline.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:31 AM   #13063
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Originally Posted by winds-of-change

I have had dogs all my life. I am always Alpha Dog. I have never, ever beaten a dog. MM, if you say you discipline your dog like you would discipline your children I feel sorry for your children. You admitted to breaking drywall and tearing up trim in "disciplining" your dog. I don't hit my children and I raised three very responsible, kind, caring and successful children who know right from wrong. I had an Airedale that didn't particularly like children. Once he growled at my first born when the little one was learning to crawl. I lifted the dog up by his collar, shook him and yelled like I was going to kill him, put him in the garage for the rest of the day. When I let him back in and he layed down, I put my baby on the floor and let him crawl in the direction of the dog. The dog looked at the baby, got up and went upstairs. I praised the dog, did it a few more times and then made it a point to never let the dog alone with the child. The dog was often gated in the kitchen while the children played. I could step over the gate but the kids couldn't get in there. I would never hit or beat my children and I would never hit or beat a dog. But I do come on to the dogs strong in a language they can understand which is turning them on their backs and yelling, holding their scruffs or necks as in a simulated 'bite'. Also, I disagree that one can "spoil" a little dog because a small dog bite is just as unforgiveable as a large dog bite. I don't let my little dogs get away with anything. I have a Pug, a Papillon and a Border Collie. All have the same rules. In the past I've had Border Collies, an Airedale and fostered a Rottweiler. None were allowed any aggression but if they are startled and they react I gave them a "Bad Dog" pretty darned loud, a time out in their kennel and that was it. A startled reaction is not the same as an attack of aggression. If I sneak up behind you and scare you and you turn around with fists up, then I can't blame you for acting like that.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Next time you abuse your dog, I don't want to know about it. PM your friends if you feel you must let others know. If I were you, I would be embarassed I acted as strongly as you did and tore up the house while "disciplining" my dog.
You say you shook your dog by its collar and yelled like you were going to kill it? And still didn't trust your own dog to be in the same room unattended with your children? seems like you didn't trust your own training. As for telling someone who is clearly a good father that you feel sorry for his children, well let's just say I'm glad that wasn't me.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:35 AM   #13064
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
That's something hoomans need to understand. Dogs are pack animals. The owner MUST be the alpha. You can get away with spoiling a small dog, at least until they bite a small child. But with bigger dogs, the ones that really can cause some damage, they have to know their place.

I don't really agree with physical discipline of dogs, as they are more psychological creatures than anything. But what works, works.

Some things that happen between me and dogs...
If I open a door, I'm going through it before the dog does.
If the dog is laying in the floor and I need to get by, I don't step over the dog, the dog WILL get up and move out of my way.
If I'm feeding them table scraps (only on special occasions) they don't get fed from the table, they wait until the people (ALL of them) are done eating, THEN it goes in their bowl.
If they want love and affection, I give it freely. But they will sit and not climb on me. If they lay down, the petting stops.
If a dog jumps on me, they get a sharp knee bump to the chest, not hard enough to hurt, but hard enough that they are knocked off of me. Repeated until desired results are achieved.
I prefer for my dogs to greet me by coming up and touching my hand, not by loud barking and flopping around on the floor and pissing everywhere.
Growling at a family member or friend gets the dog held on his back and a loud, stern "NO" with a finger shaken in his face.
Biting or "mouthing" during play means that play time is over immediately. That's what chew toys and tug ropes are for. I don't look like either one.
Chewing on non chew toy items gets that item smacked across the nose and another loud "NO".

This seems really simplistic, especially to those of us with kids, but dogs are simple animals. Unless there is something wrong in the dog's psyche, they WANT to please their alpha. Nothing makes them happier than to know their alpha is happy with them. And nothing breaks their heart more than to know your upset with them. They take it harder than young children do.
I completely understand all of that, except this one. Why do you stop if they lay down? A lot of dogs like to have their belly rubbed. Our Dachshund certainly does.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:38 AM   #13065
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When a dog lays down, they're taking control. They're saying "yeah, YOU come to ME"
A quick belly scratch or pat is one thing, but leaning over to pet a dog continuously while they're laying down is another matter. In that case, THEY'RE being the alpha.

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:06 AM   #13066
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
When a dog lays down, they're taking control. They're saying "yeah, YOU come to ME"
A quick belly scratch or pat is one thing, but leaning over to pet a dog continuously while they're laying down is another matter. In that case, THEY'RE being the alpha.
Ok, that makes since.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:40 AM   #13067
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Proud of my girl. She got her truck running right again!

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:46 AM   #13068
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Ok, that makes since.
Sense when does that make since?
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:58 AM   #13069
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
When a dog lays down, they're taking control. They're saying "yeah, YOU come to ME"
A quick belly scratch or pat is one thing, but leaning over to pet a dog continuously while they're laying down is another matter. In that case, THEY'RE being the alpha.
It depends on how they lie down. If they lie down and roll over on their back that is a submissive move. But when they lie down on their belly and look at you that is more dominant behavior.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:59 AM   #13070
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Sense when does that make since?
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