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Old 03-25-2014, 05:15 PM   #3731
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Hell, with todays crop of punks, you could miss and still accomplish the goal of defending yourself.

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Old 03-25-2014, 10:03 PM   #3732
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Originally Posted by eatmydust View Post
Here's a not so random question.

Why is it that supposedly mature men regularly argue about the effectiveness of the major defensive handgun calibers when everything from .380 acp. to .45 acp. has been shown to be effective in poking holes in humans that can lead to hypotension and death.

Regardless of caliber, 80% of those shot once survive, while 80% of those shot 2 or more times die.

I own handguns from .22lr to .45 acp., I don't want to get shot by any of them, and no one else is volunteering to take hits either. Let's also admit that >90% have never been shot at or shot another human being, so what we're spouting as gospel is mostly opinion, much of it backed up by some statistics and research, but damn little actual personal experience. Even most of the LEOs have never shot another human being.

Why can't we as reasonable human beings keep virtually every caliber thread from erupting into a hissy fit?

Think about it.
Seems there's a thread on this now.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/interesting-article-handgun-stopping-power-105443/

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

Interesting.

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.22 (short, long and long rifle)

# of people shot - 154
# of hits - 213
% of hits that were fatal - 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38
% of people who were not incapacitated - 31%
One-shot-stop % - 31%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 60%
Quote:
.380 ACP

# of people shot - 85
# of hits - 150
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated - 16%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%
Quote:
9mm Luger

# of people shot - 456
# of hits - 1121
% of hits that were fatal - 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
Quote:
.40 S&W

# of people shot - 188
# of hits - 443
% of hits that were fatal - 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.36
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 45%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 52%
Quote:
.45 ACP

# of people shot - 209
# of hits - 436
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.08
% of people who were not incapacitated - 14%
One-shot-stop % - 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 85%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 51%
Quote:
.38 Special

# of people shot - 199
# of hits - 373
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.87
% of people who were not incapacitated - 17%
One-shot-stop % - 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 55%
Quote:
.357 (both magnum and Sig)

# of people shot - 105
# of hits - 179
% of hits that were fatal - 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.7
% of people who were not incapacitated - 9%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 61%
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:13 PM   #3733
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Very nice. Thank you, TWW. I have a .380 for personal defense and .38 special and/or .357 magnum for home defense. I feel okay with those.

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Old 03-25-2014, 10:28 PM   #3734
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Originally Posted by Cinderocka1989 View Post
I had this same discussion with someone last night. I always get, "Why do you carry a 9 mm, that won't stop anything." Well I have 15 rounds, how about if you go stand down there and we'll test that theory. No one wants to try that for some reason. If it's so harmless they wouldn't mind getting shot by it right?
funny you should say that. no one wants to test out the same debate about birdshot vs. buckshot either, but many will tell you birdshot is effective enough for SD usage.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:37 PM   #3735
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She shoots low. Fate worse than death, castration.

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Old 03-25-2014, 10:46 PM   #3736
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Default Need explanation............

I'm looking at a photo of 9 supreme court judges on Huff Post, I can't up load to fTf, but if you look at this photo, can you see whats not right..............Or is it self explainatory..........

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Old 03-26-2014, 12:12 AM   #3737
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Originally Posted by winds-of-change View Post
Personally, I'm not worried at all having a .380 as a self defense round. But there are many who tell me I should be worried about it. That I'm not adequately armed with just a .380. There is no doubt in my mind my .380 will stop a thug if my aim is good.
My guess is that once you start sending lead downrange at a thug its gonna stop him one way or another. You'll be fine with whatever fills your hand. The thug will be filling his pants.

All that said and I pray that you never need to test the theory.
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Old 03-29-2014, 04:15 AM   #3738
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Yep, you wanna mess with me, I'll shoot you in the junk.

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Old 03-29-2014, 04:58 AM   #3739
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Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
funny you should say that. no one wants to test out the same debate about birdshot vs. buckshot either, but many will tell you birdshot is effective enough for SD usage.
Hopefully they are talking about #4 birdshot, or better yet BB. I'd be worried that something like #8 would not have enough penetration to be reliable for SD needs. Personally, if I was going to use a shotty for home defense, I'd use 00 buck.

BTW, DO NOT use google images to look up #4 birdshot ammo. I just wanted to see what the velocity was on those (by looking at a box of ammo), and those were some gruesome ass pictures. WTF Google? I didn't want to see wounds.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:46 PM   #3740
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Yep, you wanna mess with me, I'll shoot you in the junk.
Holy Jesus girl!

Please, just shoot for center of mass! Much larger target on the douchebags who might be attacking.
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