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Old 09-25-2011, 02:37 AM   #201
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Shi- you ASSUME he was thinking.

He was NOT thinking.

He WAS believing. He believed her had calculated his trajectory, and would impact the large pile of leaves that he overshot.

Here in the South, that is normally preceded by "HEY! Y'all hole ma beer, and watch THIS!"
Famous last words of a redneck
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:47 AM   #202
Civil Disobedience-wherever there is authority, there is a natural inclination to disobedience. Oppression breeds Rebellion
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.38 USUALLY refers to a revolver, such as the .38 Special. Which, by the way, is NOT 38/100ths of an inch- it fires a .357 bullet. .380 usually refers to the .380 ACP cartridge, a short cartridge for an auto pistol. The have no relation to each other than both being fired from a gun. .38 can also mean .38 S&W. .38 Short Colt, .38 Auto, .38 Super, 38-40, .38 Webley, 38 Long Colt, .38 Merwin & Hulbert, .38 Colt New Police, 38-44, or a strange little round from South America called .38 Largo- same size as .38 Special, but a low powered BLACK POWDER cartridge. BTW, MOST of those rounds up there WILL NOT INTERCHANGE.

The European system using bullet/ case length/ rimmed or not is a much more descriptive system. So a 7.62x54R pretty well nails it down- except the Europeans measure bore diameter differently than the US- to us, 7.62 is about .308, to them, about .312.

Got that? There will be a quiz later.

Just kidding. The naming process can be VERY confusing. Now add in the system of naming older black powder cartridges- and you have a 45-70-405- a 45 caliber rifle bullet, sitting on 70 grains of powder, bullet weighing 405 grains.

Seriously, this is why I keep reference books. It can get REAL confusing.
So, wait back up C3 I want to pass this quiz .38 doesn't refer to 38/100 so is .357 NOT 357/1000? Where the hell do they come up with these numbers?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:09 AM   #203
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.38 USUALLY refers to a revolver, such as the .38 Special. Which, by the way, is NOT 38/100ths of an inch- it fires a .357 bullet. .380 usually refers to the .380 ACP cartridge, a short cartridge for an auto pistol. The have no relation to each other than both being fired from a gun. .38 can also mean .38 S&W. .38 Short Colt, .38 Auto, .38 Super, 38-40, .38 Webley, 38 Long Colt, .38 Merwin & Hulbert, .38 Colt New Police, 38-44, or a strange little round from South America called .38 Largo- same size as .38 Special, but a low powered BLACK POWDER cartridge. BTW, MOST of those rounds up there WILL NOT INTERCHANGE.

The European system using bullet/ case length/ rimmed or not is a much more descriptive system. So a 7.62x54R pretty well nails it down- except the Europeans measure bore diameter differently than the US- to us, 7.62 is about .308, to them, about .312.
They do if you have a Medusa..

A question, I thought 7.62 was a .3105 bullet? thats what all the Mosin rounds I have measured come to. Wouldnt .312 be .303 or 7.7?

I would like to know why does a .38 only measure out to .357, the two numbers are not even close... And how did they come up with all these cartridges? I know with military calibers they made slight differences so the enemy couldnt use the other sides ammo...
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:15 AM   #204
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A .357 Magnum fires a bullet that is nominally 357/100ths. So does a .38 Special revolver. However, the early .38 S&W is closer to 38/100ths. The .32 Short Colt has a smaller diameter bullet than a .32 S&W. The .50 cal Browning fires a bullet that is .510, but gets squeezed down to .500.

If you think THAT is confusing, the 9mm Parabellum (aka 9mm Luger) has a smaller diameter bullet than the 9mm Makarov.

Part of the problem is the folks that MADE guns and ammo had to sell them, so they wanted a catchy name. Yeah, decisions made by marketing Department, and not Engineering Dept.

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:16 AM   #205
Civil Disobedience-wherever there is authority, there is a natural inclination to disobedience. Oppression breeds Rebellion
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know what I like? The metric system, it's all base ten it's so EASY. I happen to KNOW what 9 mm is, go figure, why do we have to make it so complicated, seriously?

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:21 AM   #206
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know what I like? The metric system, it's all base ten it's so EASY. I happen to KNOW what 9 mm is, go figure, why do we have to make it so complicated, seriously?
Metric system? Sounds foreign.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:23 AM   #207
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Metric system? Sounds foreign.
Ya it is. Why do you think the rest of the worlds forms of counting is so dang messed up?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:28 AM   #208
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Isnt the 9mm Makarov a 9.2mm bullet? I know its the only 9mm my Medusa doesnt shoot..

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:34 AM   #209
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Trez- you need to check your mike- a 7.62x54R actually runs 7.92mm before firing IF you have a Russian/ Warsaw Pact round, and not a US civilian load.

Not to give you a short answer, but the rationale for names is part of the whole history of guns. With the .38 Special, they wanted to avoid a stigma of the early low powered .36 cal black powder revolvers. Some rounds were heel seated bullets (like the .22 rimfire- case bites into the heel of the bullet, and outside of case and bullet are same size) Later it changed to an inside the case bullet, and the bullet got smaller.

Couple of references- Cartridges of the World, and (if you can find one- price of the damn book went out of sight) US Cartridges and their Handguns by Chas Suydam. Suydam has very good info on the rounds that were early competitors to the rimfire system. They included cupfires, teatfires, lipfires, crispins, etc. Those are rather scarce today- they did not work out, became obsolete in the 1870s.

As far as why so many different rounds- ummmmm- what was that line from the movie Jerry McGuire? Oh, yeah. SHOW ME DA MONEY!!! You did not want me buying THEIR .27 caliber Grunchenticker, you wanted me to buy YOUR .31 caliber Smeckleheimer- and the ammo for it.

Many makers had their own cartridges- like Merwin and Hulbert (at one time, a LARGE gun maker)- Hell, there was Winchester .22 Auto (not 22LR) and .22 Remington Special. The inventor named the cartridge (like the Smith & Wesson .38 Special)- so if you wanted to make a gun in that caliber, it would SAY .38 S&W Special CTG on it- even if the gun was a Colt. Which hacked off Colt, so THEY made the .38 Colt Special-

And the tales go on and on. Actually best related sitting around a fireplace with a small glass of Knob Creek on a cool evening.

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:35 AM   #210
Civil Disobedience-wherever there is authority, there is a natural inclination to disobedience. Oppression breeds Rebellion
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Ya it is. Why do you think the rest of the worlds forms of counting is so dang messed up?
They don't have to deal with stupid fractions like 1/32 of an inch. 10mm=1cm 100 cm=1 m 1000m=1 km. how is this messed up? I hate fractions, words cannot convey the utter hatred and bitter contempt I feel towards this rage-invoking form of measurement from the abyss...
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