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Old 04-04-2014, 10:08 PM   #51
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[pens thank you note to Trojan Mfg.]

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Old 04-04-2014, 10:23 PM   #52
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TekGreg has some great points. We quit with the napping when the boys were very young because they would not go to sleep until late and then would not sleep well when they did. Most kids will set a schedule of napping every day, but then their sleep needs change and all they need is a few hours a night. If they are napping in the daytime that will offset the time at night, but they have no way to know that this is going on, you, as the parent, need to see it and adjust the daily patterns accordingly. Later on their needs will increase (especially as they become teens) and they will need to be adjusted again. With our family as they entered their teen years it was rather easy because we home schooled (starting in the 5th grade) by then so we had the luxury of as much time as we wanted to make the transition, and if they slept till noon it was not a problem. These days they are both up and about by 6:30 or 7:00 AM and in bed at around 9:00 and that seems to be what they need. It is still necessary to observe and tell them when you see they need more sleep (and sometimes that they need to eat!)

With the Monster Spray we only had to use it a couple of times. I have heard of some kids who were going through a a quart a week. I think it was because the parents were putting lavender oil or another sleep-aiding essential oil, for a couple of reasons. A smart kid will catch on that it is just water, so a little scent will tend to trick them a little easier. Also, if they say it isn't working or the monsters got used to it you can change the scent and tell them you made it "extra strength".

Just thought of another thing. My nephews had trouble sleeping if they couldn't hear their dad snoring. Seriously. I don't remember how they addressed it though.

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:12 PM   #53
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Short on time this morn but let me point these out .
he is clingy as hell to start off with
Box fan is on all night as they want it on and it drowns out any other noises that may wake or scare them .
Past 2 nihgts we have left the lamp on 60 w bulb so its not the dark
No electronics to speak of
I can stay until he is asleep but he must have miind powers , he can sense when your moving , even if your not on the bed and more silent than a commando on a level 5 high risk black op . he wil wake instantly and start throwing a fit until you come back in .
No monsters or boogy men
No naps
He is wide open during the day
Will not really eat any supper
Will pass out with in 2 minutes of sitting in my lap watching tv '' no joke''
He does have sleep apnea but dont think thats it .
I am thinking he is just clingy , if he can he will sleep with mom over me , my daughter will take me over mom any day .

They use to be just fine , he would wake about 12 and fuss for a bit , MAYBE try to get in our bed but would go back to his . He got sick and mom let him sleep with her while he was sick 3 mnths ago and he has never gone back .
Another thing is WHEN he wakes up .
he passes out in my lap about 8-9:00 and will always , like clock work wake up whether he is in my lap or our bed or his bed or the sofa , its ALWAYS around 11-12 pm w/o fail .
NOW if he is in my lap , you could fire a 50 bmg and not wake him up , put him by himself and he can detect your subliminal thoughts about being tired and ging to bed .
If I can talk him into staying in his bed it only last about 3-5 min before he either starts crying or '' wants a hug or kiss '' which is his excuse for either getting up or making you come back in there .
Have tried being nice , mean , giving thanks and praise , reverse psychology , everything , even sleep aids .
If he gets it in his mind there is no stopping him which can be a great thing or a terrible thing . Most determined person I have ever met , if he joins the military he will be a 1 man army . He is so determined it baffles me

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Old 04-05-2014, 12:08 AM   #54
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Well , after 4 years of no sleep , 2 bazillions questionable questions , 50,000 thousand hours of trying to look interested , trying to be more than just Dad ,a true best friend , helping him for 3weeks on a 15 minute project ......all in all , I,m am one proud father and he is one very kind intelligent fine young man !

One very proud father !

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Old 04-05-2014, 01:53 AM   #55
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I have two daughters, 30 & 27. They each have there own kids now.
I wasn't around much after my youngest was 2 years old due to divorce, next wife, and my moving around on boats.
I had a rough few years with my oldest.
They got to spend quite a bit of time with me in the summers and at Christmas, but of course, that was vacation away from mom for them.
Even though, I was always a father. I didn't try to be their friend. (Mom did and paid the price)
Somehow, through no fault of mine or their mothers, both turned out fine.
They are always there for either their mother or I, and each other.
I don't know why they turned out the way they have, just sheer luck, I think.

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:16 AM   #56
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Sounds like your son is a cuddler, he feels safe when he is in contact with you and mom. You only have a couple of choices here. Stay strong and be ready for the good fight in returning him back to his bed each and every time he leaves his. Many sleepless days can occur until you win. You just can't get frustrated with him and brother that will be tough not to do.

Or, you can allow your kids to be able to share your bed any time they want. It won't harm them just go buy a king bed. I'd lay down with my kids in their bed and read to them then chill for a couple of minutes with them I'd get their deep breathing in synch with mine and out they'd go. Then I'd head out; that is if I didn't fall asleep LOL.

Another thing we started when they were sick and wanted to be in our room, I'd set up a chaise lounge for them to sleep on in out room, this worked brilliantly.

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Old 04-06-2014, 11:38 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMarine View Post
. He got sick and mom let him sleep with her while he was sick 3 mnths ago and he has never gone back .
Nailed down exactly when it started.

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Originally Posted by Steel_Talon
Stay strong and be ready for the good fight in returning him back to his bed each and every time he leaves his. Many sleepless days can occur until you win.

Another thing we started when they were sick and wanted to be in our room, I'd set up a chaise lounge for them to sleep on in out room, this worked brilliantly.
I am not a fan of the family bed, so I like both of these ideas very much. However, if BOTH you and your wife are not strong enough to stick with it until he breaks, don't even try it. It'll only reinforce the fact that he's in control and can manipulate you. If he stays up all night trying to get his way and you both keep him up all the next day, there's no way his body will be able to keep going the next night. You may need to employ friends or family to take the kids out during the day while you catch a nap, putting you up on him in rest and energy. This is extreme, but if he's that determined you're going to need something more than praise and encouragement.

What does he do when you and your wife stat out late? The babysitter isn't letting him sleep with her, is she? There must be some scenario in which he just doesn't follow this same pattern that you could use to help break it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:16 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
Nailed down exactly when it started.



I am not a fan of the family bed, so I like both of these ideas very much. However, if BOTH you and your wife are not strong enough to stick with it until he breaks, don't even try it. It'll only reinforce the fact that he's in control and can manipulate you. If he stays up all night trying to get his way and you both keep him up all the next day, there's no way his body will be able to keep going the next night. You may need to employ friends or family to take the kids out during the day while you catch a nap, putting you up on him in rest and energy. This is extreme, but if he's that determined you're going to need something more than praise and encouragement.

What does he do when you and your wife stat out late? The babysitter isn't letting him sleep with her, is she? There must be some scenario in which he just doesn't follow this same pattern that you could use to help break it.
It has been proven in studies by B. F. Skinner that intermittent rewards enforce a behavior more strongly than constant rewards. And that is no matter whether the reward is positive or negative. If a person (or animal) is rewarded absolutely every time they learn quickly. But, when the reward is skipped, it doesn't take long for the behaviour to stop.

With intermittent reward, the learning process is slower but it is slower to go away, too, as the child (or animal) keeps thinking, "The next time I will get that reward" and tries again and again.

Good examples of intermittent rewards are gambling and video game playing. You win on occasion and so you keep playing hoping for that reward even if it is few and far between. Haha......let me throw skeet and trap shooting in there, too.

The same with training a child (or an animal). When teaching, give a treat more often but not always in the beginning. Maybe 3 out of 4 desired behaviour. Gradually reduce the treat to maybe once or twice every 10 desired behaviour. It will keep them trying the desirable behaviour waiting eagerly for that reward.

Give verbal praise every time but a real "treat" such as a candy or special outing only on occasion.

Trust me, it works.

In other words, I am agreeing with Greg. If you and your wife both can't be strong enough to keep putting the child in bed, don't even bother. If you struggle with that child for 3 hours then give in, you've done yourself and that child a grave disservice and have only taught them if they fuss and cry and fight long enough, you will give in. So the next time, they will fight and fuss longer knowing that reward will eventually come.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:27 PM   #59
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Being a Grand Parent is so much more rewarding and you get to sleep! We had our youngest granddaughter over-nite last night, love her dearly, sweet and innocent, dont think I could ever do it full time again, Im so past that!

Wish I knew then what I know now, I didnt or I might not have grandkids today! Teach your children well was about the only great phrase that came from 60's crowd but they did everything but that, they filled our heads with useless babel not meaningful life skills. Teach your kids to survive and thrive not look to others to provide those things for them and they will be the next greatest generation! Good luck and god bless you all!

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Old 04-07-2014, 03:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
What does he do when you and your wife stat out late? The babysitter isn't letting him sleep with her, is she? There must be some scenario in which he just doesn't follow this same pattern that you could use to help break it.
HA , you would have to have someone watch them in order to go out and stay out late . I can not recall the last time we got away from them for a dinner out .

They have been trying to get their own drinks or milk and we have stopped them from doing so but out of fear of making a epic mess but now I am just sitting back and see how they handle it . A gallon of milk is heavy , he dropped a full gallon the other day trying to make his own glass .
I lef her on the sofa last night , he was in bed with mom when I went in . Too tired to move him or fight so I just wedged myself in . Woke up later , wife was in the other room . Woke up again , both kids were in there with me . Woke up again he had gone in ther other room with mom and just me and my girl .
He goes where ever she goes , think I am going to get the taser out .
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