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Old 11-28-2011, 10:42 AM   #71
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I know exactly what Hydra is saying.

He, like I did, puts on his uniform EVERYDAY and goes out and does a tough job. He does it to the absolute best of his ability. Honesty, Integrity, and Service.

Neither he or I can be held "accountable" as viking says for the actions of ANY other officer. None of us can. We can work to fix the problem...but we can't bear the full weight and responsibility upon OUR shoulder for what someone else does, any more than one plumber can be held responsible for a bad solder on a pipe he didn't solder.

As you have certainly noticed, I do NOT defend the actions of an officer is I believe him/her to be wrong. I may EXPLAIN why an officer took the action he/she did in the moment, and point out things that the vast majority on here would not notice or understand but I do based upon training and experience.

I took heat over the Rodney King video because I defended the actions of the officers involved who kept striking King after he was down. They were never trained in restraint techniques with their PR-24 batons! LAPD and LASO were only ever trained in striking techniques and they fell back on their training. Based upon the experience and training of those officers...and as King REPEATEDLY disregarded their lawful commands to stay down and stop resisting...they acted according to training and policy. Also based upon their training and experience, King appeared to be on PCP which it turned out later, and BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, he was. I am willing to be most of you have never dealt with a "dusted" suspect...it isn't pretty or fun.

That is just an example. Would I defend the actions of an officer who TASED a 7 year old kid? No, not in a million years. Would I ever defend an officer who abused their authority? NEGATIVE. Would I ever lie to cover the actions of another officer, even my own partner? NO...not ever. However, at the same time, would I accept responsibility for the actions of another officer who went outside the law or policy? NO. The only situation in which I would do that is IF it was a probationary officer whom I happened to be training...after all...it IS my responsibility in that case to TRAIN that new officer, and anything they do reflects upon the training I have given them on the street, and thus I would have to take responsibility.

The bashing Hydra and a couple of others here have talked about is very real. Every single mis-step by one officer tuns into a hen peck of ALL of us.

"F-in cops this or that! BLAH BLAH BLAH!" So, generalizations are thrown around and BOOOM everyone jumps on the bandwagon to air their personal grievance with ALL cops, when it is the action of ONE specific *******.

For crying out loud...some of you act like we ALL get out of bed every single morning with a stiffy to find and trample on as many civil rights and minorities as we can. Or that we giggle like little school girls every time we get to "nightstick the colored folk".

If ONE guy is a jerk...call him out on it. But if a guy wears the same clothes to work, and based upon YOUR own interaction with him, seems to be a decent guy...don't put them in the same bunch.

It's just as wrong as my and Hydra posting about how "All civilians are ___________ ___________ __________" When we all know it isn't accurate.

But hey...don't let logic and reason cloud your judgement.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:58 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman
I know exactly what Hydra is saying.

He, like I did, puts on his uniform EVERYDAY and goes out and does a tough job. He does it to the absolute best of his ability. Honesty, Integrity, and Service.

Neither he or I can be held "accountable" as viking says for the actions of ANY other officer. None of us can. We can work to fix the problem...but we can't bear the full weight and responsibility upon OUR shoulder for what someone else does, any more than one plumber can be held responsible for a bad solder on a pipe he didn't solder.

As you have certainly noticed, I do NOT defend the actions of an officer is I believe him/her to be wrong. I may EXPLAIN why an officer took the action he/she did in the moment, and point out things that the vast majority on here would not notice or understand but I do based upon training and experience.

I took heat over the Rodney King video because I defended the actions of the officers involved who kept striking King after he was down. They were never trained in restraint techniques with their PR-24 batons! LAPD and LASO were only ever trained in striking techniques and they fell back on their training. Based upon the experience and training of those officers...and as King REPEATEDLY disregarded their lawful commands to stay down and stop resisting...they acted according to training and policy. Also based upon their training and experience, King appeared to be on PCP which it turned out later, and BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, he was. I am willing to be most of you have never dealt with a "dusted" suspect...it isn't pretty or fun.

That is just an example. Would I defend the actions of an officer who TASED a 7 year old kid? No, not in a million years. Would I ever defend an officer who abused their authority? NEGATIVE. Would I ever lie to cover the actions of another officer, even my own partner? NO...not ever. However, at the same time, would I accept responsibility for the actions of another officer who went outside the law or policy? NO. The only situation in which I would do that is IF it was a probationary officer whom I happened to be training...after all...it IS my responsibility in that case to TRAIN that new officer, and anything they do reflects upon the training I have given them on the street, and thus I would have to take responsibility.

The bashing Hydra and a couple of others here have talked about is very real. Every single mis-step by one officer tuns into a hen peck of ALL of us.

"F-in cops this or that! BLAH BLAH BLAH!" So, generalizations are thrown around and BOOOM everyone jumps on the bandwagon to air their personal grievance with ALL cops, when it is the action of ONE specific *******.

For crying out loud...some of you act like we ALL get out of bed every single morning with a stiffy to find and trample on as many civil rights and minorities as we can. Or that we giggle like little school girls every time we get to "nightstick the colored folk".

If ONE guy is a jerk...call him out on it. But if a guy wears the same clothes to work, and based upon YOUR own interaction with him, seems to be a decent guy...don't put them in the same bunch.

It's just as wrong as my and Hydra posting about how "All civilians are ___________ ___________ __________" When we all know it isn't accurate.

But hey...don't let logic and reason cloud your judgement.
U mean to tell me all of u cops dont get up with a stiffie for bustin all of us good folks while the bad guys get away with everything. Lmao just kiddin bet u were reafy to beat me down lol kiddin again. I fully agree that the actions of one cant be blamed on all. I sure as hell wouldnt want the job as a peace officer, I would be fired after I slapped the **** out of some smart ass punk kid with dope an a gun on him
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:41 AM   #73
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U mean to tell me all of u cops dont get up with a stiffie for bustin all of us good folks while the bad guys get away with everything. Lmao just kiddin bet u were reafy to beat me down lol kiddin again. I fully agree that the actions of one cant be blamed on all. I sure as hell wouldnt want the job as a peace officer, I would be fired after I slapped the **** out of some smart ass punk kid with dope an a gun on him
Well see...that's the rub. You aren't immune to feeling that way. Not specifically about dope or a gun...realistically. A gun never bothered me unless it was a gang turd or a scumbag. Hell, I was always curious why Joe Citizen WASN'T carrying.

But...after you've seen your first child abused so badly they have brain trauma because the child wouldn't stop crying (out of hunger, sickness, and neglect) and "baby daddy" or "momma tweaker boyfriend" beat the child nearly to death...you WANT to take the scumbag out behind a building somewhere and beat them 10x worse than they hurt the child. You can't. BUT...the emotion is there just the same.

After you have had to try your best to comfort a woman who has been raped, sodomized, and beaten to within an inch of her life, and knowing that nothing you can say or do is going to help erase those moments from her memory or help her get past it...you WANT to find the scumbag and drag him down the road in handcuffs behind your cruiser, or lock them in a room with the victim's husband/boyfriend/father and an aluminum baseball bat. You can't...but the emotion is there just the same.

When you go into an emergency room to talk to the family who were witnesses to their momther or father being killed over $6.00 and try to get a statement knowing full well that you probably won't catch the scumbag who did it...it gets under your skin.

No one who wears the badge is perfect and some douchebags DO get through the screening process. We are EXPECTED to be perfect. We are expected to always make the right decision...and believe it or not...in most cases we do. But do you also know that the extreme vast majority of officers soon identify the douchebags and simply refuse to work with them? Not only because of what they are and represent...but because that douchebag can END YOUR CAREER or YOUR LIFE...you can't trust them. Often times, trust in your brother and sister officers is ALL YOU GOT. Once broken, that trust never comes back. Period. You know what...once that trust is broken with the community by a bad officer...the rest of us play hell trying to earn it back, and we do it every damned day.

I really liked community based policing. People knew me. They knew my word was good. Even the hard core bangers in the 'hood knew I would give them a fair shake, and would talk to me when they wouldn't talk to ANYONE else. They also knew the other side of that coin was I'd come down on them like a ton of bricks if they "Did me false". In their own way...even THEY trusted me.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:47 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman

Well see...that's the rub. You aren't immune to feeling that way. Not specifically about dope or a gun...realistically. A gun never bothered me unless it was a gang turd or a scumbag. Hell, I was always curious why Joe Citizen WASN'T carrying.

But...after you've seen your first child abused so badly they have brain trauma because the child wouldn't stop crying (out of hunger, sickness, and neglect) and "baby daddy" or "momma tweaker boyfriend" beat the child nearly to death...you WANT to take the scumbag out behind a building somewhere and beat them 10x worse than they hurt the child. You can't. BUT...the emotion is there just the same.

After you have had to try your best to comfort a woman who has been raped, sodomized, and beaten to within an inch of her life, and knowing that nothing you can say or do is going to help erase those moments from her memory or help her get past it...you WANT to find the scumbag and drag him down the road in handcuffs behind your cruiser, or lock them in a room with the victim's husband/boyfriend/father and an aluminum baseball bat. You can't...but the emotion is there just the same.

When you go into an emergency room to talk to the family who were witnesses to their momther or father being killed over $6.00 and try to get a statement knowing full well that you probably won't catch the scumbag who did it...it gets under your skin.

No one who wears the badge is perfect and some douchebags DO get through the screening process. We are EXPECTED to be perfect. We are expected to always make the right decision...and believe it or not...in most cases we do. But do you also know that the extreme vast majority of officers soon identify the douchebags and simply refuse to work with them? Not only because of what they are and represent...but because that douchebag can END YOUR CAREER or YOUR LIFE...you can't trust them. Often times, trust in your brother and sister officers is ALL YOU GOT. Once broken, that trust never comes back. Period. You know what...once that trust is broken with the community by a bad officer...the rest of us play hell trying to earn it back, and we do it every damned day.

I really liked community based policing. People knew me. They knew my word was good. Even the hard core bangers in the 'hood knew I would give them a fair shake, and would talk to me when they wouldn't talk to ANYONE else. They also knew the other side of that coin was I'd come down on them like a ton of bricks if they "Did me false". In their own way...even THEY trusted me.
Im sure that is a hard walk to follow glad we have guys like u out there to do it for us. My dad was a 3rd generation rancher as well as a new mexico state patrol officer. I thank u for the service u provide to the honest citizens of this great nation. Without the military, police, fire an rescue we would be sorry period.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:48 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman
For crying out loud...some of you act like we ALL get out of bed every single morning with a stiffy to find and trample on as many civil rights and minorities as we can. Or that we giggle like little school girls every time we get to "nightstick the colored folk".
You mean... You don't? Perhaps I need to reconsider my desired career. J/k.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:49 PM   #76
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Neither he or I can be held "accountable" as viking says for the actions of ANY other officer. None of us can. We can work to fix the problem...but we can't bear the full weight and responsibility upon OUR shoulder for what someone else does, any more than one plumber can be held responsible for a bad solder on a pipe he didn't solder.
But, I would expect the company hiring that plumber to either not hire him again, or hold him accountable for his poor work.

Take our personal responsibility with other shooters at the range. We see something dangerous we all should either speak directly to the person or the range officer. I don't perceive that happening in LEO community. Blue blood is very very thick. I talked earlier about an officer violating state law, and his boss saying he couldn't control his officers. He's also was not holding them accountable. then the officers that directly lied to me and the chief. Only one of them was friends with the homeowner that was encouraging the underage drinking. Why didn't his partner hold him accountable? Why did his partner stand there and let him lie to his boss and me? Just this weekend, I saw an officer light em up to get through a busy intersection with a long light... apparently to get to the restaurant. Maybe it was a call, maybe it was lunch, IDK, but as soon as he cleared the intersection the lights were back off.

Police officers should hold themselves and their peer to a higher standard of trust.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:58 PM   #77
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I open carry all the time where I live. Some people look and others just ignor you. Never had a cop do anything while I was OCing.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #78
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Conversation with a Sheriff's deputy a little over an hour ago

Me at the register in Wendy's, paying for meal, gun briefly exposed while reaching for my wallet.

Deputy: That's one hell of a hawg leg you got there.

Me: Huh?

Deputy: That iron on your hip. Aren't you supposed to inform cops when your packing?

Me: No, not by law, not in this state. But I do have to produce my permit on request. Are you requesting?

Deputy: No. I trust ya. But I think your supposed to at least inform a cop if your pulled over.

Me: I don't think so, I think it's just considered a good idea to do so. I've read the state carry laws, and don't remember any such thing as having to inform, only having to produce the permit if requested.

Deputy: Oh, you may be right. I'll have to look into it. Did you do your own work on that piece?

Me: Yes sir.

Deputy: How much do you charge?

Me: I'll slick the trigger for $40, the trigger and hammer bob for $60.

Deputy: Lemme get your number, I might call you when I get off duty....
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #79
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Deputy: Lemme get your number, I might call you when I get off duty....
I wonder if he could get you some trigger time at that tactical training place over by 61 (maybe TEES?)? That might be fun; never been myself.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:48 PM   #80
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Im friends with a few of our local LEO's and they would be more than glad to see Joe citizen carrying out there , As long as they follow the proper procedure and laws those guys could care less ,The sad part is I live in the crappy state of IL that we cannot carry in . Anyway we got to talking about carry ammo and I asked him what he uses , My first guess would have been Winchester Ranger T's but he said nope I like the expansion of the Hydrashoks in a .40 cal . He said basically most all of the new S/D ammo out there does what its supposed to do in the expansion dept , not to mention the price of all the stuff seems to be rising lately .
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