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Old 11-23-2011, 04:49 PM   #41
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:19 PM   #42
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The idea of "open carry" isn't being the one guy carrying openly in a 7-11 that's being robbed... the idea of "open carry" is EVERYBODY in the 7-11 carrying openly. It's not about being the "one guy the robber shoots first because he can see I have a gun," it's EVERYBODY wearing a gun so the would-be robber figures he wouldn't make it out alive if he decided to try robbing the 7-11 in the first place.

As far as the "cop bashing" argument, there's really no argument. It's happening, and folks here can "defend it" all they want... but it doesn't change the fact that it's happening. AZL may not "care" that it's happening, but that, too, doesn't change the fact that others--both LEO and non-LEO--don't like like it. Many are just quietly going elsewhere.



He wasn't simply a "nut case," he was a "nut case LEO." If he had been a plumber, he wouldn't have been the "nut case plumber," he'd have just been a "nut case."

So, let's interject this video every time LEOs' opinions are asked here... I mean, why the hell would any LEO on here give his or her opinion when you could just reference this video?? And keep wondering WHY it's "us vs. them"...
You miss the point I was trying to make...I am simply not going to buy into the petty bull****. Screw it. I don't care, and it don't matter. I've heard all of it before, and I just consider the source, and POOF...easy breezy.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:50 PM   #43
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I live in Las Vegas and open carry quite a bit. As for LEO responses, they don't really give it much attention. As an example, I was in a Mickey D's waiting for my order when a Metro motorcycle officer came in and ordered some food. He noticed the Sig on my hip and we spent the time waiting for our food to arrive discussing the pros and cons of my weapon (Sig) and his weapon (Glock).

The only "looks" I got were the wide-eyed "Oh my God he has a gun" looks from the Kommiefornia tourists that were sitting in the store eating.
Oh MY GAWD YOU OWN A GUN???? What is wrong with this country?
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #44
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He wasn't simply a "nut case," he was a "nut case LEO." If he had been a plumber, he wouldn't have been the "nut case plumber," he'd have just been a "nut case."
What about the bad rap the Postal Service got a few years back with a few workplace shootings? "Going Postal" became a common term for a workplace shooting regardless of whether it was a post office or not. The fact is that post office related shootings are less common than the urban myth led people to believe.

The defining difference between LEO's and others is that a few LEO's use their position of authority as LEO's over people in order to perpetrate their bullying behavior (criminal or not) on both the innocent and guilty. I have never heard of a postal worker who delivered the mail by kicking a person in the head or threatening to shoot them.

I have had both good and bad experiences with LEO's. Fortunately the good far outweighs the bad, but that is just my experience, and I do not take the time to bitch about what happened here or elsewhere on the internet. But I will join in the discussion as I have here, and I encourage all LEO's to do the same. As I have said before, if you defend the indefensible then there is something wrong. If an officer has done something egregious then you should be outraged because it reflects badly on LEOs as a whole.

That Canton cop was out of line. He was probably madder at himself for screwing up the stop than he was at the guy with the gun, but he let his anger get the better of him. Cops can't afford for that to happen. Especially in an otherwise benign situation like that. The cops had the upper hand the whole time, to the point of being absurd. The guy in the driver's seat was literally too afraid to speak up, and with good reason. The cop was going ape**** even before he was aware of the gun. They were trying to bully a confession out of all three of the "suspects" from the get-go and the gun just became a catalyst for the cop to go completely over the edge. If any of those "suspects" had said "Boo" they no doubt would have been beaten down like a baby Harp seal.

Now if the guy had been carrying illegally and the gun came out, who is to say that the cop wouldn't have just started spraying everybody down with gunfire? He was already clearly out of control. How could he have gained enough clarity of mind to control the situation if he was already out of control?

Maybe my perspective is way off but that is how I see it. I hope either one of you LEO's out there can set me straight or help me to understand I would appreciate it.

I think that the OP was probably legitimately stopped and searched. Yes, I would have been quite upset to be handcuffed as he described in that situation but I would get over it. I hope they caught the bad guy.
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:51 PM   #45
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This is how I see the "cop bashing" issue. Cops are just like everyone else, there are good ones and bad ones. That said, because of the powers we give the police, we also hold them to a higher standard than the rest of us. With power comes responsibility. If that video was a real recording and not a internet fabrication, that cop should have been bashed, arrested and charged with assault, fired, drawn, hung and quarted then buried face down headed North. (or at least fired) His partner should have also been charged for derilection of duty for not stopping the assault.

I don't see it as cop bashing to post a bad cop in action, no more than it is cop bashing to post that poor dude who shot himself while teaching gun awareness to a group of elementary school kids. An ass is an ass, uniform or not. Most cops are good folks, just as most of the rest of us are good folks. If I saw a plumber showing his butt (forgive the pun) as much as the video cop, it would not offend me, as I am not responsible for the way others in my profession act.

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Old 11-25-2011, 02:25 AM   #46
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This is how I see the "cop bashing" issue....
It doesn't matter how you see it. It matters that many OTHERS see it differently.

It doesn't matter that you're defending the trends happening here.

Pages and pages of posts attempting to justify what's happening won't change anything. Changing the trends will.

So, everyone can continue with things the way they're going. But don't wonder why people are going other places and talking about how this place is "spiraling"... and not in an upward direction.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:06 AM   #47
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Hydra, I won't deny that there does seem to be a general trend towards many members here bashing cops. While I openly admit that I feel many cops are fine men and women, I also admit that I will bash my hometown cops whenever I feel like it (because they're drug dealers and thieves).

But you seem to be the only one pissed about that video. Where was he not out of line?

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Old 11-25-2011, 04:45 AM   #48
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Getting back to the subject at hand...Open carry is controversial, both in LE and the public. In Texas it is not legal. I'm OK with that. We had some growing pains when the Concealed Handgun License law took effect. The biggest problemI experienced was new license holders not understanding how to deal with the Police. I stopped a few cars driven by CHL holders who wanted to quickly "show me" their concealed handguns. NO, I do not want to see it. I would be far happier if you simply kept your hands where I can see them and stay calm. If you are calm, I tend to be calm. I like it that way.

Lately, the CHL isue has become a non-issue. Hundreds of thousands of license holders in Texas and we have no problems to speak of.

As for the open carry issue, it would take some time for everyone (including the police) to get used to. There would be some temporary discomfort for all parties involved, but it would reach a balance. The major motro areas would have the biggest problem. Too high a concentration of hoplophobes both in uniform and in the civilian world. Big city cops have a lower rate of common sense than smaller jurisdictions, IMHO.

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Old 11-25-2011, 04:48 AM   #49
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But you seem to be the only one pissed about that video. Where was he not out of line?
I'm not the only one pissed about the video. Several people on this forum alone have posted many negative comments about the cop in that video. That cop WAS out of line, but that's not my argument.

I've explained this before, and I'll try to explain, yet again.

There are cops on this forum, right?

There has been an increase of posts regarding cops in a negative light, right?

Well, every time a video or comment is posted regarding some bonehead stunt pulled by an individual cop, for what appears to be no other reason than because it was a cop, it's not an attack on that individual, it's an attack on the profession.

I've been guilty of it in the past, and when I realized what I was doing, I stopped.

If it was an isolated post concerning the person making the post, that wouldn't seem like an attack on the profession, but the individual officer. That's understandable. But when the posts start adding up, and extend beyond personal experience to "my friend had this happen to him/her" or "I heard about this one dude in my town", then include links to articles, stories, and videos that have nothing to do with anybody on this forum, it APPEARS the members of this forum, in general, simply want to exploit every "bad apple" who wears a badge.

That, my friend, is what gets a forum labelled as "a bunch of cop bashers."
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:19 AM   #50
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Getting back to the subject at hand...Open carry is controversial, both in LE and the public. In Texas it is not legal. I'm OK with that. We had some growing pains when the Concealed Handgun License law took effect. The biggest problemI experienced was new license holders not understanding how to deal with the Police. I stopped a few cars driven by CHL holders who wanted to quickly "show me" their concealed handguns. NO, I do not want to see it. I would be far happier if you simply kept your hands where I can see them and stay calm. If you are calm, I tend to be calm. I like it that way.

Lately, the CHL isue has become a non-issue. Hundreds of thousands of license holders in Texas and we have no problems to speak of.

As for the open carry issue, it would take some time for everyone (including the police) to get used to. There would be some temporary discomfort for all parties involved, but it would reach a balance. The major motro areas would have the biggest problem. Too high a concentration of hoplophobes both in uniform and in the civilian world. Big city cops have a lower rate of common sense than smaller jurisdictions, IMHO.
+ .95

I couldn't give you +1 because I disagree with your statement about "being OK" with OC being illegal in Texas.

Why did it EVER become "OK" in this country to pass the FIRST LAW that emplaced restrictions on our 2nd amendment RIGHTS???

How many people have got to jail/prison, paid fines, or even been ARRESTED for a 2nd amendment wrong?

ANYTHING you have to pay a tax on or get a license or permit is not a RIGHT, it's a PRIVILEGE.

The 2nd Amendment says "The RIGHT of the people..." not "The PRIVILEGE of the people..."
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