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Ubergopher 09-01-2009 02:41 AM

OIF/OEF vets and those currently serving please read.
 
As some of you know Admiral Mullen is having a virtual town hall for Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines to ask questions.

One of my friends posted a question about a joint combat uniform, which I believe anyone who has deployed in joint operations agrees is a necessity. Here is a link to his video, please rate it and post your comments agreeing with him if you feel he is right, which I do.


WDB 09-01-2009 03:05 AM

Uber,
I understand the concept but also know that those on the ground are trained to identify friendly uniforms. I can say asking a Marine to give up his uniform is a tough sell as they worked hard to wear it. It might make sense to a person in the rear with the gear but to those up front there unit and branch defines them. No offense but fashion in a time of war seems like a truly small issue. At best it would level the stories told in a bar.

It hasn't been and issue over several wars/conflicts so why would it be an issue now? I'm certain a US Marine, knows an US Army, Navy or Airforce uniform.

Ubergopher 09-01-2009 03:12 AM

The military right now is much more joint than it ever has been in the past conflict. In my personal experience I was an Airman working for a Sgt Major and our S-6 shop was completely Navy.

He isn't talking about taking away dress uniforms or the garrison uniforms, those are safe in their own branches. What he (and I agree with 100%) is talking about is uniformity across the board unless required by the mission (like pilots wearing their onsies)

Yunus 09-01-2009 03:17 AM

Quote:

to those up front there unit and branch defines them. No offense but fashion in a time of war seems like a truly small issue. At best it would level the stories told in a bar.
Isn't that saying that a fashion statement is defining them?

I agree with the one service uniform to at least include one freaking pattern. I mean come on, either choose the tiger stripped Air Force pattern or the more dot matrix Army pattern or whatever just agree on a damn pattern. I think that the different services do have different requirements when it comes to pocket placement/angles and pocket fasteners. Some don't like velcro because of the noise, personally I think its great but I work around jet's so the velcro noise is not even a thought. Different jobs do require different uniforms but the colors can all be the same at least.

/This only applies to combat uniforms. Service dress uniforms should be a time to show off the individual services colors/uniform.

Shihan 09-01-2009 04:35 AM

When I served in The Marines we were switching to putting name tags above the pockets and that did not sit well. It individualized The Marine. We were Marines and wanted to be thought of as such. We refered to each other as Marine, Devil Dog and Leatherneck never Sgt. Smith or Pfc. Johnson. We are simply Marines.

WDB 09-01-2009 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunus (Post 153751)
Isn't that saying that a fashion statement is defining them?

I agree with the one service uniform to at least include one freaking pattern. I mean come on, either choose the tiger stripped Air Force pattern or the more dot matrix Army pattern or whatever just agree on a damn pattern. I think that the different services do have different requirements when it comes to pocket placement/angles and pocket fasteners. Some don't like velcro because of the noise, personally I think its great but I work around jet's so the velcro noise is not even a thought. Different jobs do require different uniforms but the colors can all be the same at least.

/This only applies to combat uniforms. Service dress uniforms should be a time to show off the individual services colors/uniform.

I think it still comes down to the mission of the troop, no need to dress a Airforce tech like a front line Marine. Honestly how many AF personel need camo uniforms? Simple different gear for different tasks in the military. Might be as simple as a uniform or as complex as the firearms issued. It is the gear needed to get the job done.

WDB 09-01-2009 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubergopher (Post 153749)
The military right now is much more joint than it ever has been in the past conflict. In my personal experience I was an Airman working for a Sgt Major and our S-6 shop was completely Navy.

He isn't talking about taking away dress uniforms or the garrison uniforms, those are safe in their own branches. What he (and I agree with 100%) is talking about is uniformity across the board unless required by the mission (like pilots wearing their onsies)

I still see it as a none issue, I've been in that place in time and had Army troops mix with Marines and never got confused with who was the good guy.

Ubergopher 09-01-2009 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDB (Post 153815)
I think it still comes down to the mission of the troop, no need to dress a Air Force tech like a front line Marine. Honestly how many AF personel need camo uniforms? Simple different gear for different tasks in the military. Might be as simple as a uniform or as complex as the firearms issued. It is the gear needed to get the job done.

Air Force.

I needed one and I'm just a cook, then take a look at the TACPs, PJs, CCTs, Security Forces, SOWT, EOD, the other civil engineer types who deploy with the Army etc etc etc.


This isn't some idea by us stupid REMFs who've never done anything (which SSgt Taylor isn't) to try and bad ass up. Its a logical idea to promote uniformity in deployed units to prevent one guy from immediately standing out from the others on a dismount in joint ops.

Would you want your Corpsman, JTAC or other force multiplyer shot first because they stand out because they wear a different uniform than you and stand out?

To me the only logical solution is one uniform for all in deployed locations.

EDIT:
Quote:

Originally Posted by WDB (Post 153818)
I still see it as a none issue, I've been in that place in time and had Army troops mix with Marines and never got confused with who was the good guy.

When? Until a few years ago we all wore the BDU/DCUs. It has nothing to do with blue on blue. It has EVERYTHING to do with making it harder for the enemy to differentiate between us.

WDB 09-01-2009 05:59 AM

EVERYTHING to do with making it harder for the enemy to differentiate between us? Are you suggesting the "enemy" considers one branch of the military a higher value traget? That is what I read into your post, as I know the military unless your an AF pilot the rest of you are pretty detached from the action. I could be wrong but for the most part you could wear your PJ's to work and the "enemy" would never know.

Ubergopher 09-01-2009 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WDB (Post 153831)
EVERYTHING to do with making it harder for the enemy to differentiate between us? Are you suggesting the "enemy" considers one branch of the military a higher value traget?

Once you remove the human factor and take out emotion. I would say that a units TACP is a much more important target compared to an infantry type because of his skillset. The same can be said for medics, EOD, etc etc. Also I'd be willing to venture an Army guy in a patrol with Marine both wearing their respective uniforms that the Army type would get shot first because he stands out from the rest of the people with him.

Quote:

as I know the military unless your an AF pilot the rest of you are pretty detached from the action. I could be wrong but for the most part you could wear your PJ's to work and the "enemy" would never know.
Wrong and right. When I'm on the FOB/Bagram/etc etc I could wear whatever I wanted and they wouldn't know. However when I go outside the wire I want to look like those I'm with. The exact same can be said for the combat arms types too.

Here is a list of AFSCs and Navy rates that I know of personally being in combat (not just getting your base mortared)

Services (not just me, but another couple)
Power Production (generator mechanics)
TACPs (Tactical Air Control Party)
CCTs (Combat Controllers)
PJs (Pararescuemen)
Both Navy and Air Force EOD
ENFNs
Corpsman from the Navy


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