New Era for NASA
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Discussion Forums > The Club House > New Era for NASA

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2014, 02:01 AM   #1
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,912
Liked 1296 Times on 721 Posts
Likes Given: 562

Default New Era for NASA

Well Ladies and Gents,

Early tomorrow morning, if everything goes well, NASA will execute EFT-1 for the Orion Program.

Although I'm sure the test will keep some folks at NASA up tonight, I for one, am pleased that NASA has finally taken a step in the right direction to returning their activities to space exploration.

Obviously many more years of tests and other activities will have to be successfully completed before we can take a trip to Mars, but any step in the right direction is a good one at this point.

I attempted to play a tiny part to further space exploration by enticing a Spanish professor who has done some interesting things with magnetics, namely projecting, shaping, and intesifying magnetic fields using alternating magnets and superconductors, to submit a proposal to the InnoCentive Program that NASA runs whereby cash prizes are awarded to selected contenders for innovations that assist with space exploration technology objectives.

As some of you may know, space that lies outside of Earth's protective Van Allen belts can be hazardous to your health due to highly energetic particles that are referred to by the misnomer of cosmic rays. These particles are primarily protons, essentially hydrogen atoms stripped of their electron, and travel at a substantial portion of the speed of light. Naturally, these things are difficult to stop, but using projected magnetic fields it may be possible to re-route them around a spacecraft.

When Mike, Buzz, and Neil set out on their little trip to the moon, every so often they'd see these flashes or floaters inside the command module. They never said anything about it to CapCom at the time because they didn't want anyone thinking they had lost their marbles. However, what they were actually seeing were "cosmic rays" or the energetic reaction between these high energy particles punching through the command module and anything that was in the way until the ions were stopped by enough matter in front of them.

A handful of those involved with the Apollo program were aware of this phenomenon and its deleterious effects on equipment and personnel if intense enough or sustained for a long period of time. This was one of many reasons why NASA elected not to travel to Mars at the time. Whereas spacecraft are generally capable of withstanding a severe exposure to radiation, humans don't fare so well.

It now appears that with research only recently conducted by Professor Sanchez and his compatriots at the Autonomous University of Barcelona that we might have something approaching a solution to this problem, assuming power requirements for this form of active radiation shielding are not inordinately high.

I'm looking forward to a successful completion to EFT-1 and a speedy second launch into lunar orbit. Everyone keep their fingers crossed. We may actually live to see humans set foot on another planet.
kbd512 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 12-04-2014, 05:01 AM   #2
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,912
Liked 1296 Times on 721 Posts
Likes Given: 562

Default

I have tried, unsuccessfully up to this point, to respectfully illustrate the problems with SLS to NASA and others. I'm quite certain that SLS will fly successfully, it just can't put enough mass into LEO for a successful Mars mission on anything resembling a reasonable time table. Simply put, we need bigger rockets.

For space propulsion, chemical rocket technology is at or near the limit of what it is capable of achieving. Any chemical rocket powered trip to Mars will be unnecessarily long, dangerous, and expensive due to the relatively poor specific impulse that chemical rockets can attain. An analogy I like to use for gun people is the relative efficiency of a rail gun versus gun powder. Although the rail gun is more complicated than a firearm, the velocity it can accelerate projectiles too is also substantially higher.

The type of rockets I envision NASA using for successful Mars missions have low earth orbit payloads of 500 metric tonnes on up, versus the 170 metric tonnes that the most evolved variant of SLS will be capable of launching. These things are about the size of the Washington Monument.

With a 500t payload, you can send up unimportant things like nuclear powered VASIMR engines to cut your travel duration to Mars to a scant 40 days or so by utilizing those ions to do something useful. Obviously a sufficiently powerful nuclear reactor could also handle all of the spacecraft's power generation requirements for purposes other than propulsion, making power efficiency and usage less of a concern for mission planners.

Instead of a thin aluminum alloy hull spacecraft with the minimum supplies necessary to complete a mission, with a 500t payload you can utilize a more durable titanium alloy for a pressure hull and compartmentalization similar to a Navy ship, line the hull of the spacecraft with materials dense enough to attenuate some of the radiation received, and carry an inventory of spare parts and extra supplies. If the nearest service station, which would be Earth, is millions of miles away, you don't want to discover that you need another thingamajigger half-way to Mars. Buzz may have saved his bacon by using his NASA-issued space pen to complete the circuit to fire the ascent engine on the LEM, but that's not a professional solution to the problem.

Any outpost on Mars will, realistically, need a nuclear power supply. Martian dust storms do a number on solar panels and there are times, and places, where the Sun don't shine. It may be possible to tap into geothermal vents if there is any significant geothermal activity that initial surveys have missed, but nuclear power is the most compact and efficient option. Either way, the power supply is sure to have a decent heft to it.

VASIMR engines make things like active radiation shielding largely unnecessary for Mars exploration, although I still believe active radiation shielding is a key technological capability required for deep space exploration. You're not sending humans to the gas giants without it.

Ok, that's enough of that. I sincerely hope they succeed, but I think they've grossly underestimated the mass that they have to take with them.
kbd512 is offline  
ScottA Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 06:12 AM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
primer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,017
Liked 2782 Times on 1808 Posts

Default

But every new phone I get screws up regularly, and don't even get me started on computers.

These are the same particles that miners see when they turn out the lights, correct? Or is it a similar particle, of varying strengths? I'm tired. Iirc, they have the capability to travel through earth and keep on going. Luckily our magnetic field protects us from the nasty ones.

This is interesting stuff. Now how the astronauts react to footprints on the Martian soil will be most interesting.
__________________
Feral cat waterboarder
primer1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 06:39 AM   #4
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TLuker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: S.C.
Posts: 3,492
Liked 1893 Times on 1216 Posts
Likes Given: 4250

Default

Thanks for the posts. That really is interesting stuff. I'm glad to NASA doing something besides thumbing a ride into space.
TLuker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 08:52 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 241
Liked 124 Times on 89 Posts

Default

? they going back to the moon because someone stole all their rocks?
ironmike0311 is offline  
locutus Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 10:09 AM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 4,015
Liked 1332 Times on 892 Posts
Likes Given: 857

Default

Given the state of our economy, should going to Mars, (or anywhere else a plane can't take us) be a priority?

As a taxpayer, I vote no.
__________________
I don't see what the problem is. Everybody is being nice, and getting along, and I, for one, am learning stuff. So, if you don't like the discussion, don't look at the thread. Or, simply cut to the chase, and close it.
_________________
Is there an age limit for a thread, after which we kill it?
clr8ter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 10:27 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Vincine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adirondack Mts.
Posts: 3,495
Liked 1912 Times on 990 Posts
Likes Given: 1456

Default

Wow kbd512! Science! That was fascinating, really! But I have to say a Mars mission is primarily an ego trip. I have no doubt the human survival problems can be engineered, but how many MORE Mars missions could be had and knowledge obtained (about Mars) for the money with one way, or even round trip, robots that don't need space pens, let alone O2, H2O, or Tang?
__________________
"Sometimes I pretend to be normal, but it's boring and I go back to being me."
"You might as well be yourself, people won’t like you anyway."
"Tres verbo dictom"

Last edited by Vincine; 12-04-2014 at 11:46 AM.
Vincine is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #8
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,111
Liked 3856 Times on 2634 Posts
Likes Given: 1924

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clr8ter View Post
Given the state of our economy, should going to Mars, (or anywhere else a plane can't take us) be a priority?

As a taxpayer, I vote no.
I like when we put the world on notice on who we are, and what we stand for. Good stuff.
Mercator is offline  
clr8ter Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Vincine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adirondack Mts.
Posts: 3,495
Liked 1912 Times on 990 Posts
Likes Given: 1456

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clr8ter View Post
Given the state of our economy, should going to Mars, (or anywhere else a plane can't take us) be a priority?

As a taxpayer, I vote no.
NASA's several billion dollar budget is less than 1% of the 3 trillion dollar Federal budget. It's not big enough to have it's own slice in the pie charts. Even if it quadrupled it wouldn't be enough to solve any of our significant problems.
__________________
"Sometimes I pretend to be normal, but it's boring and I go back to being me."
"You might as well be yourself, people won’t like you anyway."
"Tres verbo dictom"
Vincine is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #10
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mopowerbmx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,062
Liked 772 Times on 439 Posts

Default

Going to Mars is not an ego trip or a waist of taxpayer money. It is a major step into progressing the future. Our scientist would have to invent new technology. Just like the space program in the 60s and going to the moon. We advanced ten fold. I'm all for my tax dollars going to advancement than paying off corporate welfare or buying off other countries.
mopowerbmx is offline  
TLuker Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
NASA...MOON LANDING...REAL or FAKE.... LONGHAIR Conspiracy 153 12-09-2012 05:01 PM
NASA satellite falls on car AcidFlashGordon The Club House 18 09-26-2011 09:37 PM
Obama lays NASA at feet of Russians CHLChris Politics, Religion and Controversy 25 07-10-2011 02:24 PM
NASA to be used for Muslim public relations user4 Politics, Religion and Controversy 45 07-29-2010 05:02 PM
NASA test fire Ares I-X today cpttango30 The Club House 8 10-30-2009 01:05 AM



Newest Threads