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-   -   Murder or Self defence. (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/murder-self-defence-14360/)

cpttango30 05-31-2009 01:39 PM

Murder or Self defence.
 
I pulled this from another less CCW minded message board. I am one of the youngest board members.

The attached links to the recent Oklahoma City pharmacy shooting show the security camera video and related stories. I'm interested in knowing whether you believe the shooting was murder or self-defense, not in predicting how the trial will turn out. The poll is private, so please vote.

http://www.nbc-2.com/Articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=30135&z=3

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090530/ap_on_re_us/us_pharmacy_shooting

Sorry bout the links. I did s copy and paste. DUR it didn't work.

paganwolf 05-31-2009 01:52 PM

one link expired the other requires a log in. any other info?

Kishido 05-31-2009 02:21 PM

Well, there's no doubt the gene pool needed a little bleach but from what I read the pharmacist shot the guy, left and then came back and shot him again. That's going to hurt him during the trial. I could see it if he simply emptied a mag on the guy during an adrenaline dump but I don't see how he's going to get around what the tape showed.

Cnynrat 05-31-2009 02:42 PM

I think he went beyond self defense when he came back and shot the guy again repeatedly while he was laying on the ground. It doesn't appear the pharmacist was in any immediate danger at that point in time. Also, according to the news reports he didn't do himself any favors by lying about what happened when he first told the story to the cops.

However, I think the first degree murder charge is way over the top. Is it possible the DA knows he won't be able to get a first degree murder conviction, and made that the charge so there is a high probability the guy will eventually go free?

cbw 05-31-2009 03:14 PM

The first shot was legit, the rest seamed to be un called for as the threat was gone. Once the threat is removed no more shooting is allowed, even if the world is a better place without the little scumbag.

cpttango30 05-31-2009 03:25 PM

I to think a murder 1 charge will not stick. But I am sure a manslaughter charge will...

Cnynrat 05-31-2009 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpttango30 (Post 111320)
I to think a murder 1 charge will not stick. But I am sure a manslaughter charge will...

I agree, they could probably get a conviction on manslaughter. The news reports only indicate he is being charged with first degree murder. In OK, if the jury decides they can't convict on that charge, do they get to consider other lesser charges, or does the DA need to also bring the lesser charges in advance?

falseharmonix 05-31-2009 03:43 PM

+1 for self defense.

The employee didn't know for sure that he was unconscious. He could have been playing possum, pulled out an unseen weapon, and fired.

Anyone ever see Saving Private Ryan? Remember when the scout is running, and gets cut down by machine gun fire? Remember how, after he appears to fall dead, that the machine gun continues to pump round after round into his body? The text that follows is something like "As long as there is air in his lungs, he still carries the message".

Now I know war and robbery are not the same, but as long as that kid was breathing, as long as he was not immobilized, he could be IMO a threat.

And, the best part of the whole yahoo link:

Quote:

Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.

"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.
Sorry, ma'am. Your 'baby' didn't have to put himself in that situation and go rob a respectable business and get shot at in the first place....

Lowrider 05-31-2009 03:55 PM

I agree with the defense lawer. I want to hear the story. Two armed robbers come in and one goes out. We can't see the status of the wounded guy. Was he reaching for his gun? Was he trying to get up?

No way was it 1st degree premeditated. There should be a trial to determine the facts, but he should not have been charged with 1st degree. That is a negotiation tool with the defense and the jury.

cpttango30 05-31-2009 04:24 PM

See I am glad you guys are here. We can only see one side of the story the camera.

We cannot hear what is said or see what happens outside. Maybe the chicken shet one is yelling back to brain damaged guy hey pop a cap in that sucka when he comes back in. We can't hear what is going on all we see is a spit second snap shot of the crime.

I think the partner needs to be brought up on murder 1 charges. They premeditated the robbery knowing full well they could die. That being the case your buddy gets shot you should be charged with murder for getting him into it in the first place.

Oh this will go to the supreme raciest court and get over turned by our newest Judge.


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