[Sonic82]

Originally Posted by emil

Bowling for Colombine has been a huge succes, and im sorry to say it, but that has often had a big influence on peoples view on America.

That's about the saddest thing I've heard all week.

[lbwar15]

I thank we can all agree. Obama is well on his way of creating tyrant. If you don't see it as a tyrant now wait a few years.

[Mosin]

To me, to not own a firearm is a slap in the face to every man woman and child who died in founding this country.

A suicide pact with every person who thinks the future is written in stone, who thinks that future promises security.

An insult to every disarmed Jew, slave, refugee, and victim alike. Who suffered and died because they had no means to defend themselves.


To me, not owning a firearm is turning away a flag draped coffin, stating 'Thank you for your sacrifice, but I'm too afraid to be allowed the freedoms you sacrificed your life for.'

To me, the idea itself is treasonous, not only to those who wrote our Constitution, but treasonous to the very laws of nature and self preservation that define humanity.

Should you find yourself disarmed of liberty because you sought safety, you will soon discover that you never deserved either.

[Overkill0084]

Originally Posted by emil

okay, i gotta give it to you, that was extremely well spoken. and im sorry if it sounded like i was generalizing Americans, which i probably did. oh, and by the way, i do want to go to America when i can afford it, and have the time, it seems like quite a nice place.
It's quite lovely.

but i must ask, do you really think the second amendment still has it's place in modern politics? i mean, what are the chances of a tyrannical government taking over America today? You certainly don't need to fear the brits, that's for sure.
surely, the second amendment has served it purposes, but don't you think that there is a higher chance of hurting a loved one, than a criminal? No.
Look up "fast & furious" (the DOJ plot, not the series of awful movies.) Strip away all the noise, what would be the aim of such an operation, besides steering public opinion in favor of banning scary looking rifles? Unfortunately, the biggest threat to US gun owners is their own various govts.

and our european mindset is based upon a trust towards the government, which i guess is the main difference between Americans and Europeans (maybe not south-europe). Right because the incorporation of the EU is universally popular all over Europe? I went to Italy shortly after the Euro was made the currency of Europe. Every Italian I spoke with genuinely angry about the change. They were all convinced they got screwed on the deal. And of course all govts are simply there to ensure the best outcomes of their citizenry. We believe, that if we are being robbed, the police will come (To take the report and pick up the bodies as needed.), if our house is burning, a fireman will be there to put out the fire, (How much more house would you have with a few well placed fire extinguishers) and we believe, that if we are bleeding out, we will soon be brought to the hospital. (how much higher is the survival rate if people have their own bandages and first aid kits?) Self sufficiency is a better route than waiting for your govt to come pull your fat out of the fire. Firearms are simply one more tool in the tool box of a self sufficient person
i think this is why we don't really believe in guns, as most of us believe that it is a weapon, meant for killing. (the problem is that you have a problem with that. Disband your militaries while your at it.) I think i would probably be scared, knowing that everyone on my block slept with a loaded gun under their pillow. (again, your perception problem. Or you don't respect your fellow citizens enough to believe they have the level of responsibility necessary. However they are expected to operate a motor vehicle without lethal results on a regular basis.) But of course, i don't see the whole picture before i actually go to america.
but that was a terrific answer, you have been a great help

Europe has armed police forces, last I knew anyway. Why no problem with them? A police officer is simply another citizen who has been tasked with a job and given some tools with which to do it (some of which are firearms and other weapons). Not all of them are always competent or particularly responsible. They are a reflection of the society from which they are sourced. In some third world countries (Hell, parts of "oh so civilized" Europe, for that matter) govt apparatchiks abusing their authority is a real problem. A (bad) police officer is more dangerous than Joe Citizen. Because they have been given more authority than the average citizen. Therefore the potential for abuse of that authority is always a real possibility. IMHO, the average citizen should be more worried about their govt abusing its authority than some random law abiding gun owner becoming a menace.

[magnumman]

Contrary to what you have been told by Michael Moore and others. Armed does not mean dangerous. People who legally carry guns are the most responsible among us. Those who do so illegally are criminals, and are the reason that us responsible citizens carry legally. If we were to be disarmed, the criminals would not be, because they are acting outside of the law to begin with. You should feel more unsafe knowing that the only potentially armed people are criminals.

Accidents do happen, but one thing that non gun owners don't seem to understand is that guns don't shoot themselves. In responsible hands, a gun is not a threat to anybody.

[trip286]

Originally Posted by emil

okay, i gotta give it to you, that was extremely well spoken. and im sorry if it sounded like i was generalizing Americans, which i probably did. oh, and by the way, i do want to go to America when i can afford it, and have the time, it seems like quite a nice place.

but i must ask, do you really think the second amendment still has it's place in modern politics? i mean, what are the chances of a tyrannical government taking over America today? you certainly don't need to fear the brits, that's for sure.
surely, the second amendment has served it purposes, but don't you think that there is a higher chance of hurting a loved one, than a criminal?

and our european mindset is based upon a trust towards the government, which i guess is the main difference between Americans and Europeans (maybe not south-europe). We believe, that if we are being robbed, the police will come, if our house is burning, a fireman will be there to put out the fire, and we believe, that if we are bleeding out, we will soon be brought to the hospital.

i think this is why we don't really believe in guns, as most of us believe that it is a weapon, meant for killing. I think i would probably be scared, knowing that everyone on my block slept with a loaded gun under their pillow. but of course, i don't see the whole picture before i actually go to america.

but that was a terrific answer, you have been a great help

We have a given right to defending ourselves against harm from others. The question is not "do you really think the second amendment still has it's place in modern politics?" But the fact is "Politics has no place in our right to live without fear." There is one major difference between us and your apparent personal beliefs. You seem to feel "oh, if I get robbed, the police will come to help, and if I'm hurt, I'll go to the hospital". Well, here, its been ruled by the highest court that the police are not responsible for protecting the citizens. And why should a person tolerate an attack just because they know they can go to a hospital? What if someone has the intent to kill you in the process of a robbery? No big deal, you'll just get buried?...

And most of us aren't afraid of an outside threat, but more concerned about maintaining the freedoms that are already being encroached upon by our own government.

And I'm sure almost all of us are terrified by the prospect of our loved ones being hurt. This is why most responsible gun owners (especially those here on FTF), are so conscious of gun safety.

Beyond that, they AREN'T just for killing. I've never shot a person as a civilian, but I've murdered many innocent paper plates in informal competition with friends.

And there is no such thing as a "legitimate sporting purpose" firearm as so many gun haters would have you believe. ALL firearms can have legitimate sporting purposes. I've competed with a rocket launcher in the military (only allowed one shot though), and with machine guns, mortars, and watched artillery guys shoot for bragging rights. Anything can be competitive.

[Mosin]

I know you're young, and of a different mindset than Americans. I won't fault you for that. But as you get older (or as you start to look), you'll realize what is fear mongering, and who is doing it. Hopefully you'll ask yourself why. Why do people want us disarmed? Who are they? What is their real agenda?

They don't allow hyping of car accidents. That would make people afraid to drive. They don't hype doctor mistakes, that would make people afraid of doctors. They always point to how safe flying is. They never hype flu and common disease deaths, that would cause panick, and disrupt the economy.
So out of all these things that kill (all except flying I mentioned), kill more people than firearms, yearly.
So why is every shooting suddenly national news?... Why do those people want you to fear firearms?

[Mosin]

You asked, 'does the second amendment have a place in modern politics?'

But I ask, 'Does modern politics have a place in the second amendment?'

[emil]

Originally Posted by Mosin

To me, to not own a firearm is a slap in the face to every man woman and child who died in founding this country.

A suicide pact with every person who thinks the future is written in stone, who thinks that future promises security.

An insult to every disarmed Jew, slave, refugee, and victim alike. Who suffered and died because they had no means to defend themselves.


To me, not owning a firearm is turning away a flag draped coffin, stating 'Thank you for your sacrifice, but I'm too afraid to be allowed the freedoms you sacrificed your life for.'

To me, the idea itself is treasonous, not only to those who wrote our Constitution, but treasonous to the very laws of nature and self preservation that define humanity.

Should you find yourself disarmed of liberty because you sought safety, you will soon discover that you never deserved either.

as i said in the beginning, i had no intentions of being disrespectful. do not say that i dont deserve liberty, simply because i do not agree with your values, we were raised with different ones. i am a strong believer in freedom to speech, but my values does not include a gun. my country is not founded on a liberation from a tyrannical government, which probably is partially the reason that we don't quite agree on this subject. why do you believe that giving up your gun, is giving up your freedom? To me, giving up your gun is a sign of trust in your fellow man.

[lbwar15]

I can tell you this as a former firefighter. Yes the police will come. But I can not tell you how many bodies I put in the back of an ambulance bc they did not get there In time. Your safety and well being is not something to put in someone elts hands. On average from the time you call to the time a police officer gets on seen is 5-10 minuets if all goes right. Do you know what can happen to you in 5 min? It takes me 2 seconds at most to identify a threat draw my weapon and put 2-3 rounds on target. It takes me longer to get my phone out my pocket. How is my gun going to hurt a loved one? In all the 100's of years guns have ben around they have never hurt one single person. I will turn In every gun I own if you can tell me one time someone loaded a gun put it on a table walked away and it shot someone.

If you make it illegal to own a firearm there will be more killing. The reason more people don't get robed, raped, killed, beat, ext.... Is because the attended victim may have a gun and most bad people in the world do not wont to take that chance.

Here in America we do have places you can not own a gun. Chicago is one of them. (11 people were murdered there this morning in less than 4 hours) I bet they wish they had a gun now.