Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Discussion Forums > The Club House > a little help....

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #111
Camo, you are lucky to see it.
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
KG7IL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eatonville,Washington. My nearest neighbors are cows.
Posts: 2,414
Liked 1701 Times on 942 Posts
Likes Given: 5173

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emil View Post
well, the way i see it, i have never had that right, so i'm not giving anything up. it would be a weird move for our government to suddenly allow people to carry guns, and it would be very difficult for your government to ban them. afterall, history and culture is hard to change.

about visiting you, i might just hold you up on that. if i show up on your territory in a few years, please don't shoot me, i've always wanted to visit America
emil, you and I can be friends

No, you have not had that right, and I speak not of you, but of my fellow americans that hold such a mindset. While it would be difficult for the US Government, or State Governments, and in most cases City Governments, to abolish all guns, we have seen an attempt here by Socialist type of politicians, to infringe upon MY RIGHTS. The previous Assault Weapons Ban was the result of un-American politicians, using lies and propoganda to influence others. The so called Assault Weapons Ban, banned MANY normal civilian firearms. Because some rifles had cosmetic features, they were included. The ban did not affect Machine Guns, but semi-automatics with magazines.

Our forefathers had and understood the need and right for citizens to hold modern weapons, on equal to the police or military. We all should be able to have machine guns, but we have seen an encroachment of our rights over the years.

The second amendement is ALL ABOUT KEEPING A GOVERNMENT IN CHECK.
It's not about hunting, or target shooting. It is about the citizens having the ability to remind the Government that ALL POWER COMES FROM THE PEOPLE.

Unless you can internalize what that means, it is hard to understand it.

This may seem revolutionary, but indeed the founders of this great nation were revelutionary. We admire their foresight, bravery and their words.

http://www.americanrevival.org/quotes/2a.htm
http://www.handgunclub.com/second05.cfm


If you were to come to America, you need'nt fear being shot. By enlarge, you will find that the areas where citizens are armed and carry to be the safest areas. I would recommend avoiding those cities where guns are restricted. In those areas, the criminals are embolden, since they know they have unarmed victims.

Schools and Theaters, with their gun free mentallity seems to be the choice for the deranged.
KG7IL is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #112
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lbwar15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,012
Liked 293 Times on 221 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by texaswoodworker

Please read the blue writhing. ^

There are 52-80 million gun owners in America. Together, we could make up the largest military in the history of the world. Our Government fears that, because they know what will happen to them if they become tyrannical. Our foreign enemies fear that, because they know they could not defeat a standing power that large. This is what our founding fathers wanted for this nation, and that is what happened.
We may have to fight a few wars, but America always will be a and of freedom because of our right to bear arms.
I was going to say this earlier but got sidetracked. And tww is correct.

I hope you do not take any of what we said the wrong way. The bottom line is it is our constitutional right as Americans. It is what we believe in and what many have died for. I can promise you there is not a single person here that would not die for it. We will not go without a fight period. Not only could are armed citizens make up the biggest military in the world. But every single veteran and active duty military person in America and fighting over seas took an oath to defined this country and its constitution against ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
-------------
__________________
lbwar15 is offline  
texaswoodworker Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:44 PM   #113
Big TOW
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WebleyFosbery38's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Irish Settlement CNY
Posts: 4,991
Liked 5474 Times on 2704 Posts
Likes Given: 5813

Default

Mosin, you hit the spike dead on! Id love to Like you 10 times for that but you certainly wrote the OPs report for him short and sweet like! Our Nation has never been defeated by a foreign invader although we've been beat up some in a few conflicts oversees started by Europeans and others.

No Power other than God Almighty would dare set foot on US soil as an invading force because the entire Nation would rise up and vanquish them immediately. We do not accept power from our Government, they get their power from us and we will take it all back if it is necessary to protect our Citizens.

__________________
WebleyFosbery38 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:51 PM   #114
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bsdavis4296's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts

Default

@mosin....
Tears shed over this..... Do you mind if I quote this later on? For academic purposes, that is.

For me, I own firearms for several reasons. It keeps power with the people, where it should be.

I believe in a very conservative approach to economics, and to the private sectors of social issues, and a very liberal approach to government, and other political issues. I classify myself as a free-market socialist, but find my self most in agreement with the American libertarian party. I believe in (a) strong central government(s), but I also believe in having a republic, union, or preferably, a confederation, so all Americans can be members of governments in which In which they can most identify. Along with this, I believe, unfortunately, that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to individual rights, but I digress. In America, our state governments, and federal (national) governments both make gun laws. These laws can cover anything from concealed carry of firearms (Illinois does not allow the public carry of firearms for defense), to bullet use (loading hollow points, or other expanding ammunition into guns is illegal in California) to total restriction (The city of New York, for example, does not allow the ownership of firearms at all). I, a proud Mississippian, personally believe that it is that individual state which has the right to determine ownership of firearms for non-hunting purposes. We are slowly loosing our gun rights in the U.S. and it doesn't make sense to my why. Now, let me explain my thought process.

First, safety/defense. It has been proven, time and time again, that societies WITH guns are less violent and more democratic than societies WITHOUT guns. Switzerland, where it is required by law, due to their military policies, that ALL citizens have a rifle in their household. Guess what? Switzerland is one of, if not still the least violent country in the world. When the UK banned firearms, violent crime rates became incredibly high. In the U.S, states with the most lenient gun laws are typically the least violent. Let me load a scenario for you: someone, armed with a weapon, even just with a knife, breaks into your house, with the intend to steal, and/or rape, or harm you or your given family member. Would you rather shoot, and possibly kill that (violent) person in defense, or let them do the same to your (innocent) family? Obviously, a sane person would want a gun. Unless of course, they have been sold on the false premise that the police can "protect" you. It takes ~20 minutes for police to arrive at my house, and if an individual waits that long, the given person will most likely be dead. I keep a beretta 92sb-c pistol next to my bed, it is military grade. I keep it loaded alternating with 9mm hollow points, and glaser safety slugs, to maximize damage, while minimizing damage. I would rather kill than be killed, as most would. See Mosin's post on this... It is beautiful.

Secondly, for fun. If you ever get the chance to shoot, you will understand. It is a powerful experience, and one that can become addictive. Knowing you have a tool in your hand that is powerful enough to do what it does is captivating.... It's like a drug. Wether it be shooting the small .22 at close range, just recreationally or shooting a powerful 30.06 in a competition, you will have a blast. It is hard to describe to a non-gun owner.

Art: Compare firearms to the works of Da Vinci or Van Gogh. They can be ruthless and powerful, or beautiful and precise... That is why I have guns that I don't want to shoot...., I would NEVER dream of firing off a limited edition silver plated 1911- 1 of 500 made, fit with custom sapphire grips.... While fully capable of launching the mighty .45 acp down-range, it would never happen. Guns can be both fine art, and tools of death... This is a reason they are so enthralling. Take a look at the pictures I attach below, you will see what I mean. They were sadly confiscated, and defaced in the UK firearms ban... Sickening, like burning the Mona Lisa....

Hunting.: Many like to live off of the land, like their forefathers. Hunting is a world-wide tradition, and even though I personally don't hunt, it is a sport that can't be forgotten.

Freedom: Most importantly, freedom... In any democracy, it is essential to keep the people in power. For this to be done, they must be armed. No one has said this better, than American founding father, Thomas Jefferson. I have pulled this particular compilation of quotes from John Petrie, who compiled them. Enjoy:

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria)

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.

No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. (Back then!)

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
---Thomas Jefferson.

All in all, firearms symbolize beauty, power, liberty, democracy, freedom, security, and happiness. While there is no argument that firearms can be used for great destruction and tyranny, their great benefits in the hand of private citizens far outweigh their sad cost. To strip someone of their inherent rights to enjoy what they wish, or of their self-defense is nothing short of tyrannical. The promotion firearms is inherent to freedom- to not condone their use welcomes tyranny. While it may not be today that it happens, a society without the right to bare arms will fall; wether it be due to internal conflict, rebellion, or a totalitarian government. To protect the right to bare arms is to protect everything I, and we at firearms talk stand for: the individual- for one to express his or herself in any way that individual sees fit.

And now for the art:

image-2617467457.jpg   image-2726433930.jpg   image-1159420970.jpg   image-1185903193.jpg   image-4219099747.jpg  

__________________
bsdavis4296 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:56 PM   #115
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
magnumman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: pa
Posts: 544
Liked 162 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

I love these kind of conversations. My parents took a foreign exchange student from Germany a few years ago. She brought her family back to visit last summer. Her dad brought up gun ownership and how he did not understand why it was important. There was a murder outside of their hotel when they were in dc. I cited dc's gun laws and explained that only criminals have guns on the streets of dc. I explained all of the above points then took him into the basement to look in the safe. After a little arm twisting I got him to go to the range. He proceeded to put about 100 rounds through my ar. By the time he left not only did he appreciate the 2nd amendment, but wanted it for his country. Next time he is here I will have to work on explaining to him why I bought a V8.

__________________
magnumman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:00 PM   #116
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bsdavis4296's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emil
and yes, i have been to Switzerland, and no, i wasn't scared (probably wasn't even old enough to actually be scared about it back then, but thats beside the point).
i probably wouldn't be scared to go to the US either, but i wouldn't feel right knowing that everyone was potentially armed. it just heighten the risk of accidents happening
We've all heard this before, but guns don't kill people, people kill people.... Don't get your self in a situation where someone has to draw on you...
__________________
bsdavis4296 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:01 PM   #117
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yunus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: |,Maryland
Posts: 4,669
Liked 993 Times on 584 Posts
Likes Given: 311

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emil View Post

are you serious, or are you joking? i will be like 15 pages. of course i will take all the help i can get, and i would, like i said, love to have your guys opinion on the different subjects
post it when its ready, Google gas a translator that while imperfect usually works pretty well.

Also keep in mind that your military has guns to protect you from potentially dangerous neighbors. We are just scaling that down from the state to the individual level.

A better question to ask than why we want to keep our guns is to ask why does the government want to take them away? The common answer is to protect the people but that shows a lack of trust in the people by the government, why should the people trust a government that doesn't the people?
__________________

"Good people drink good beer."
Hunter S. Thompson

Yunus is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:05 PM   #118
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bsdavis4296's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
I know you're young, and of a different mindset than Americans. I won't fault you for that. But as you get older (or as you start to look), you'll realize what is fear mongering, and who is doing it. Hopefully you'll ask yourself why. Why do people want us disarmed? Who are they? What is their real agenda?

They don't allow hyping of car accidents. That would make people afraid to drive. They don't hype doctor mistakes, that would make people afraid of doctors. They always point to how safe flying is. They never hype flu and common disease deaths, that would cause panick, and disrupt the economy.
So out of all these things that kill (all except flying I mentioned), kill more people than firearms, yearly.
So why is every shooting suddenly national news?... Why do those people want you to fear firearms?
Revalation on the car part.... Do you mind if I use that?
__________________
bsdavis4296 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:06 PM   #119
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lbwar15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,012
Liked 293 Times on 221 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumman
I love these kind of conversations. My parents took a foreign exchange student from Germany a few years ago. She brought her family back to visit last summer. Her dad brought up gun ownership and how he did not understand why it was important. There was a murder outside of their hotel when they were in dc. I cited dc's gun laws and explained that only criminals have guns on the streets of dc. I explained all of the above points then took him into the basement to look in the safe. After a little arm twisting I got him to go to the range. He proceeded to put about 100 rounds through my ar. By the time he left not only did he appreciate the 2nd amendment, but wanted it for his country. Next time he is here I will have to work on explaining to him why I bought a V8.
Lmao bc real cars have V8's. and a 4cl is 1/2 a good motor.
__________________
lbwar15 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:12 PM   #120
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bsdavis4296's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emil

as i said in the beginning, i had no intentions of being disrespectful. do not say that i dont deserve liberty, simply because i do not agree with your values, we were raised with different ones. i am a strong believer in freedom to speech, but my values does not include a gun. my country is not founded on a liberation from a tyrannical government, which probably is partially the reason that we don't quite agree on this subject. why do you believe that giving up your gun, is giving up your freedom? To me, giving up your gun is a sign of trust in your fellow man.
That's the point... Everyone can't be trusted.

Trust fellow man? Give up your military, police, etc.

How would that work?
No disrespect, but your country is a little bit too small for there to be any (1st world) power hungry dictator to go after Denmark, they would go after say Germany instead. EX: Hitler.
__________________
bsdavis4296 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes