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Old 03-09-2011, 04:26 AM   #11
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Only if you turn them sideways. And have the Homeboy sight system.



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Old 03-09-2011, 04:52 AM   #12
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No, man- it ain't the pistol grips- its that barrel shroud thingy that makes them so deadly. Along with being black. Or green.


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Old 03-09-2011, 04:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dog2000tj View Post
tactics usually out-win technology more often than not
I don't remember a whole lot of "comedy" in "The Book of Five Rings", "The Art of War" and "On War"

Of the three?

I would recommend "The Book of Five Rings" first and "On War" second. The Art of War is a great read, but the other novels' simply were more easy to translate to the modern world.

Clauswitz was a god damn genius, and his "work" was published after his death AND was incomplete.

Rommel versus Clauswitz on the "modern" battlefield would have been a very EPIC "Modern Warrior".

This almost needs a new thread by itself.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:02 AM   #14
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Yeah, but they would have had pistol grips. We all know that makes them more deadly...
And bayonets! Actually I recall having seen a show awhile back that claimed that Custer was outgunned, as many of the Sioux had Spencer, Henry and Winchester repeating rifles while Custer's men had single shot rifles. Add the fact that the rifles had extractor issues, not unlike an AR after shooting Russian ammo.

Not so sure, however, that a modern AR would have changed the outcome, Custer employed poor tactics and had a regiment of tired, sick and malnourished troopers.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:19 AM   #15
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Arrogance, stupidity and past actions by Custer is what got him and his men killed. If a military man today knowingly ordered women and children to be killed they would be Court Marshaled and imprisoned. The book I Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee is the best chronicle of what actually transpired at The Little Big Horn. Custer got exactly what he deserved. The sad part of it is that he got all his men killed by his poor leadership and gross ignorance. Custer wasn't a hero, just a pompous fool sent west to get rid of him.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:05 AM   #16
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Some of the criticism assumes that Custer's lines would have broke in the same fashion regardless of the weapons his men had. I doubt that would have been the case at all.

IF the troopers had M16's, we must assume they would have been trained with them. This would have given them a very substantial advantage over the Sioux. If I recall correctly, the battlefield archeology shows the troopers were arrayed in a line formation at the beginning of the battle. This line broke and the troopers began a running battle as the Sioux began the chase. At that point, the troopers lost all formation effectiveness. Before they were overrun, the troopers had a defensible position if equipped with the right weapons.

While Custer's poor decision making was the deciding factor in the battle, you have to taken in account that many of the Sioux has superior firepower compared to the troopers. The trap door Springfields did have greater range and stopping power, but the terrain and horse mobility allowed the Sioux to close range with the troopers from the start of the battle. This negated the Springfield's longer range and made the repeaters of the Sioux far more devastating.

The trap door Springfield had a rate of fire of approximately 10 rounds per minute. An M16 can lay down fire at a rate of what? 100 rounds per minute with fair accuracy?

Would it have made a difference? I think it certainly would have. Maybe if the troopers had a weapon comparable to their opponent, some kind of repeater, MAYBE there wouldn't have been a Wounded Knee. Maybe the US Army wouldn't have been out for blood vengeance for the next several years. Maybe there would be a difference in Indian relations. Maybe there would be more integration of the Sioux and other Indian nations into the nation as a whole.

Maybe... maybe... maybe

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:43 PM   #17
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Alright, but what if the Sioux had AKs?

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:26 PM   #18
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Alright, but what if the Sioux had AKs?
Is Ditka regular-sized or mini-sized?
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:00 PM   #19
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I forgot to add, the troopers had an endless supply of ammo, with nuclear tipped bullets.

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Old 03-09-2011, 06:35 PM   #20
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I forgot to add, the troopers had an endless supply of ammo, with nuclear tipped bullets.
There's the win right there.

Lets say they also had chainsaws, now what?


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