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Old 12-15-2013, 11:49 AM   #1
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Default IMO, it disrespects the uniform...

Yesterday, at a local hardware store, I saw something that I did not like.

The store provided a young man with a small area to display and sell his drawings. All drawings had a military theme. Most were of personnel in uniform doing different jobs that the military has to do.

While I am glad the store is willing to help, the young man had as good of a display as possible with the small area.

But what bothered me about the whole thing is that the young man himself was in military uniform. I took it the uniform is a way to attract people to his stand. Or to put it another way, the uniform is being used in a personal endeavour to bring people to a commercial setup to purchase one of his drawings.

I was in a hurry and did not let my feelings be known to the young man, but thinking back, maybe I should have.

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:05 PM   #2
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Did he have a dog tag and the real insignia? Without it, not a uniform, just duds.

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:11 PM   #3
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What's the issue? He sells military stuff and dresses accordingly. If anything he is bringing positive attention to the uniform

No different than Civil War re-actors or WWII, etc

That is unless he was somehow bringing negative attention to the uniform. Otherwise I don't understand your beef

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:33 PM   #4
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Technically, AR-670-1 is the legal guardian of last word on this if it is a US Army Uniform-

http://allarmyregulations.com/regulations/ar-670-1-wear-and-appearance-of-army-uniforms-and-insignia-part-1

There are ceremonial and "other than duty" allowances but a few things are clear, It must be worn entirely if it has US Army above the right hand pocket and you are prohibited from representing the US Army in any negative manner while that label is on your chest (very broad brush on that one). Additionally, you will be hard pressed to find civilians that care about 670-1 and nobody will prosecute them if they dont.

It would only bother me if he was wearing it and making a political statement by doing so, the US Army may say otherwise (Rallies and such are probably exempt from that but you should still wear it correctly and remove the US Army if you arent going to). Class A's should have their buttons replaced as well, they are seals. Without those labels, they are just coats, NBD.

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:50 PM   #5
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does not apply to outdated, decommisioned uniforms or pieces of uniforms. if it did, hollywood must arrest every actor whoever wore one.

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Technically, AR-670-1 is the legal guardian of last word on this if it is a US Army Uniform-
It would only bother me if he was wearing it and making a political statement by doing so, the US Army may say otherwise (Rallies and such are probably exempt from that but you should still wear it correctly and remove the US Army if you arent going to). Class A's should have their buttons replaced as well, they are seals. Without those labels, they are just coats, NBD.
Great source Webley. I see in:
"1-10. When the wear of the Army uniform is required or prohibited", it goes on to say, "in connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests..." so yeah, by Army standards, selling merchandise, in uniform should be unacceptable.
I wanna rephrase that a little... If the guy is in the military, the above standards should and do apply from what I'm reading. A civilian however, that would be a different story because now you're dealing with freedom of expression and speech, etc, etc that a soldier doesn't get to enjoy typically.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski View Post
does not apply to outdated, decommisioned uniforms or pieces of uniforms. if it did, hollywood must arrest every actor whoever wore one.
I think you will find it applies to any uniform past or present issue that a visible official US Army ID Label is affixed (Navy, AF, Marine...). Thats a technicality, nobody really follows it but the Branch Label is an Official Identification Tag, its kinda like US Government Property even if you bought and paid for it.

I was working down in a liberal little city of Ithaca a couple years ago and on a sunny summer day while driving to get parts, I noticed a crapload of shaggy guys in various woodland and desert cammo parts of uniforms sitting on a lawn with a BBQ Grill and getting drunk (10:00 in the morning). They had a big sign up that said "Vets Need Food" and a box below it to collect money and food.

They were less than ten feet from the road and those with a blouse on had military labels over their pockets proudly displayed for the world to see. It literally took every bit of self control I could muster to just keep driving and act like I never saw them. They represent nothing I do or did or anyone on this board that has served our nation proudly and they disgust me so much I almost vomited!

Thats where I think prosecution would be good, and restrict them from ever wearing the US Military Uniform again or send them to the stockade!

See, Thats the problem Stratrider, Civilians dont have to follow the same laws military do, not just that one, were exempt from rights and privileges civilians take for granted by the nature of raising our hands. Your correct, you cannot legally sell a product while in Military Uniform without express permission from your Command, that is considered an endorsement and strictly prohibited by law. On the other hand, I cooked and sold thousands of Bratwursts at our Kasserns Oktoberfest celebration in full uniform and sold them to Soldiers and Krauts! The money went to the Post Family fund so it was OK. The young man in uniform selling his paintings was probably not legally wearing the uniform even if the content he was selling was flattering or representing good things about Soldiers.

Ironically, the Constitution we protect does not protect us while we serve, they Military is a dictatorship not a Republic or Democracy. We accept that when we raise our hand, or very soon after...
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #8
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army regs apply to army personel. it is outlining what a soldier can and cant do....discuss.

fyi...actors wearing uniforms promote movies...are you going to arrest them?

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Old 12-15-2013, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski View Post
army regs apply to army personel. it is outlining what a soldier can and cant do....discuss.

fyi...actors wearing uniforms promote movies...are you going to arrest them?
Hell, Actors, Police and Thugs all carry "Ass Weapons" in NY, they are the only ones exempt from the safe act!

Your correct, just wearing the uniform wont get you arrested for impersonation, you would have to do more than that. Also correct when you say Military are the ones who must follow it, true but most of us respect it as well as follow it. A very few real vets would disgrace the uniform or the flag, they are one and the same interwoven into our lives.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
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Dan_fl

Everyone seems to be going with the assumption this dude is a Soldier. Is that correct or was he in a different service's uniform?

Was it camouflage or dress? If Marine uniform, please describe. I'm curious.

I only ask because while similar, all our regulations for uniform wear and personal appearance are slightly different from each others.

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