imagine this
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Discussion Forums > The Club House > imagine this

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2008, 01:30 AM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sgtdeath66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 963
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts

Default imagine this

You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way. With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it. In the darkness, you make out two shadows.



One holds something that looks like a crowbar. When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside. As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.



In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few That are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless. Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm. When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.



"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.



"Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing. "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."



The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times. But the next day's headline says it all: "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die." The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters. As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.



Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win. The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.



A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you. Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.



The judge sentences you to life in prison.



This case really happened.



On August 22, 1999 , Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term.



How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ?



It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license. The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.



Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.



Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed Man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.



The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)



Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.



For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later,

Sealed the fate of the few sidearm still owned by private citizens.



During the years in which the British government incrementally took Away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.



Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."



All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.



When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply. Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.



How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kinda like cars.



Sound familiar?



WAKE UP AMERICA , THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.



"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."

--Samuel Adams
__________________

Wars begin where u will
But they do not end where you please-Machiavelli


He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- Dr. Johnson


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." - Samuel Adams

your my best friend but if the zombies start chasing us im tripping you

sgtdeath66 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 11-26-2008, 04:08 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: everywhere
Posts: 9,639
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts

Default

I have heard this guys story before, and reading it again p!$$e$ me off. Apparently, there is a huge divide between law and justice. Same goes for the Border Patrol agents still doing time for apparently doing their jobs.

If someone starts a petition to free this guy, and maybe save the once great U.K., and perhaps sending a message to our own politicians that this doodoo won't fly here, count me in.

__________________
Benning Boy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 06:27 AM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10
Default

There should be a clearly defined law for this kind of scenario.

__________________
leappy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 09:55 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
falseharmonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nashville,TN
Posts: 1,744
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Okay, so at first glance I thought this article was about American gun rights (the story of the victim defending his home and being thrown in jail).

After clearing that up, I began to wonder about myself...When I purchased my pistol (local gun shop and shooting range, owned and operated by active-duty & retired law enforcement and military personnel), I don't remember signing anything that said "I, the undersigned, have registered this weapon.....blah blah blah".....

The only paperwork was the 'standard' "This is the weapon I'm buying, heres the serial number, and I'm not a criminal, don't smoke crack, and I'm a legal citizen" stuff. I would think that if there was something crucial like registering the weapon with the police I'd have been notified at the time of the sale.

Is there anything I'm missing?!?! I live in the Land of Lincoln, if that makes any difference.

Nothing like a news article to make you paranoid....

__________________
falseharmonix is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 04:53 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sgtdeath66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 963
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts

Default

when you buy a firearm from an ffl your firearm is automatically registered from what ive gathered, so the police know everything youve purchased from an ffl dealer

__________________

Wars begin where u will
But they do not end where you please-Machiavelli


He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- Dr. Johnson


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." - Samuel Adams

your my best friend but if the zombies start chasing us im tripping you

sgtdeath66 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 05:05 AM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
falseharmonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nashville,TN
Posts: 1,744
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

So in other words, if I should be forced to defend myself, the weapon is registered and therefore I cant be punished? (assuming that there is evidence to support that my actions were in self defense)

__________________
falseharmonix is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 05:21 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 441
Default

This man has had a lot of support and sympathy in the UK, he was subjected to several home invasions by Gypsies and has now been released. But what the author here failed to mention is that he shot both in the back whilst they where attempting to flee, and the one he killed was 16 years of age. Martin was a recluse and lived on the family farm alone in Norfolk.

It depends on your point of view, is burglary a capital offence, there was no suggestion that Martin's life was at risk, he had just had enough and decided to take matters into his own hands. You have a right of self defence in Common Law in the UK, but only to use enough force necessary to defend yourself, and it must be proportionate to the threat. A sympathetic jury decided that the force used was unproportionate. One man was followed out into the grounds of the property and shot attempting to run away. Clearly no threat.......

Although a farmer the shotgun was an unlicenced 12 gauge pump, a firearm which is able to be licenced in the UK, had the shotgun been licenced he might have done a little better.

The point is it's not a matter of whether you or I think these burglar's got what they deserved, given the circumstances I think his actions where excessive and that one has to have the compete picture before drawing and concusions, and using it as an analogy in relation to possible future gun control in the US.

__________________
Boris is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 02:16 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3479 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
what the author here failed to mention is that he shot both in the back whilst they where attempting to flee, and the one he killed was 16 years of age. You have a right of self defence in Common Law in the UK, but only to use enough force necessary to defend yourself, and it must be proportionate to the threat. A sympathetic jury decided that the force used was unproportionate. One man was followed out into the grounds of the property and shot attempting to run away.
That tells a large part of the tale there, and it's one thing I try to caution friends of mine, and people who come through the shop, about.

Bullets are for self defense in the real world of "civilized life" where the Law of the Land governs & the lawsuit is still king.

Bullets ARE NOT for chasing down someone you are pissed at as they are fleeing. Emotions run high, and noboby knows that more than me, but once that "perp" is running away, assuming he doesn't have your newborn in his arms, you can't just shoot him. You are going to lose that "self defense" argument 9 out of 10 times in this country.

Thanks for filling in the missing info Boris!

JD
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 02:21 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: everywhere
Posts: 9,639
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdeath66 View Post
when you buy a firearm from an ffl your firearm is automatically registered from what ive gathered, so the police know everything youve purchased from an ffl dealer
Depends on where you are. My state forbids "registry", but a sales record is kept by the State Police.
__________________
Benning Boy is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 02:47 PM   #10
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
spittinfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maiden,NC
Posts: 9,663
Liked 83 Times on 54 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

My Understanding of NC registration is that it is only tied to the serial #. They can search my name all they want and not find that I own a gun. If the serial # is searched they'll find that I was the purchaser.

__________________

If the pain is lacking so is the discipline...

"the only 911 call I need is chambering a round" - Mr. Muller, MO car dealer

spittinfire is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes