Illegal Stops occurring across USA? - Page 3
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:06 PM   #21
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One of our two local officers was sitting in his car talking with me (I was in lawn chair in the back yard) when car roared by the front of the house with a stereo blasting. He took off and ran 'em down, and told me later he found three bags of pot, and a stolen handgun in the out of county car. A bit unusual around here..... we have one officer for days, and one for nights....... and a small farm community full of informants if need be......... I've been an EMT for over 15 years, and I'm all for the stops. An inconvenience ? yep...... but some of you need to ride with me and dig bodies out of a car that was hit by a drunk. I did CPR on a 16 week-old baby after a drunk hit her folks' car. Dad and the little girl died. Mom is still paralyzed. I'll be inconvenienced a bit to get a drunk off the road. Don't agree? .... Go on a ride-along with your local EMS.

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Old 10-22-2008, 03:00 AM   #22
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One of our two local officers was sitting in his car talking with me (I was in lawn chair in the back yard) when car roared by the front of the house with a stereo blasting. He took off and ran 'em down, and told me later he found three bags of pot, and a stolen handgun in the out of county car. A bit unusual around here..... we have one officer for days, and one for nights....... and a small farm community full of informants if need be......... I've been an EMT for over 15 years, and I'm all for the stops. An inconvenience ? yep...... but some of you need to ride with me and dig bodies out of a car that was hit by a drunk. I did CPR on a 16 week-old baby after a drunk hit her folks' car. Dad and the little girl died. Mom is still paralyzed. I'll be inconvenienced a bit to get a drunk off the road. Don't agree? .... Go on a ride-along with your local EMS.
What else will you be okay with them inconveniencing you with in order to stop the "bad guy"?
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:27 AM   #23
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One of our two local officers was sitting in his car talking with me (I was in lawn chair in the back yard) when car roared by the front of the house with a stereo blasting. He took off and ran 'em down, and told me later he found three bags of pot, and a stolen handgun in the out of county car. A bit unusual around here..... we have one officer for days, and one for nights....... and a small farm community full of informants if need be......... I've been an EMT for over 15 years, and I'm all for the stops. An inconvenience ? yep...... but some of you need to ride with me and dig bodies out of a car that was hit by a drunk. I did CPR on a 16 week-old baby after a drunk hit her folks' car. Dad and the little girl died. Mom is still paralyzed. I'll be inconvenienced a bit to get a drunk off the road. Don't agree? .... Go on a ride-along with your local EMS.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:30 AM   #24
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What else will you be okay with them inconveniencing you with in order to stop the "bad guy"?
Ask the same question when a speeding, or drunk driver takes out someone close to you. It's not like you have a right to drive drunk, or exceeding the speed limit. You have no right to drive at all. It IS a privilige, GRANTED BY THE STATE. You'll modify your thoughts once you attain puberty.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:17 AM   #25
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Ask the same question when a speeding, or drunk driver takes out someone close to you. It's not like you have a right to drive drunk, or exceeding the speed limit. You have no right to drive at all. It IS a privilige, GRANTED BY THE STATE. You'll modify your thoughts once you attain puberty.
This has less to do with immaturity and more to do with the rule of law. Either laws are to be obeyed, or they are not. And right now, today, the law says we may not be detained without probable cause.

Your points that drunk drivers are a serious problem and that driving is a privilege are not lost on us. But do those things mean 4A doesn't apply?
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:25 PM   #26
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No where does it say Probable Cause is necessary to "detain" someone. PC is needed to "arrest" someone. There IS a difference. Temporary detention is different. All that is required for detention is a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.
When a car is swerving within one lane and exhibiting other signs of being a "drunk vehicle", there is reasonable suspicion to believe the driver is intoxicated and stop the car. The investigation continues with face to face questioning and perhaps field sobriety tests. If these observations and test results yield Probable Cause, then an arrest is made. The detention is for investigative purposes and must be of a reasonable time and scope.
In Texas, dirving is (by law) a privelege, not a right. If you are driving on a public road, you can be stopped to see if you have a licence. No other PC needed. That has been the law since drivers licenses were introduced.
Many people confuse rights and priveleges.
Sobriety checkpoints are illegal in Texas but DL checkpoints are not.

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Old 10-22-2008, 12:31 PM   #27
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In fact, I'm pretty sure in all states, driving is considered a privilege, not a right.

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Old 10-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #28
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There is, without question no shortage of imbellishment on most any topic and this one is no exception. HOWEVER my rant is REAL and this actually happened to me this week...

---re-post---
Here I am cruizing along at the SPEED LIMIT, and using turn signals at the proper time... I get STOPPED by an Addison Texas Police Officer. OK, what the fuk is this all about? I don't recall breakin' any laws. The Officer walks up to my window and says he pulled me over because.... now get this... I am a "good driver"!!! So I said, and I'm pulled over for this, that SUCKS!!! I drive GOOD so I DON"T GET FRIGGIN PULLED OVER, for CRISTSAKES!!!!!
--------------

The officer did give me a 1/2 price off gift certificate from a local restaurant.

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Old 10-22-2008, 12:57 PM   #29
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The whole "drivers' license" thing is kinda' interesting, historically. Lot of discussion when those "licenses" first started coming out. How they are used today is NOT what was originally promised. Gee, what a surprise!

Also, if the citizens pay for the roads and maintenance (taxes, both direct and indirect), is it legally and morally logical to then say they have no right to use those roads? That the "use" of those roads is a "priviledge" granted by the State on a purely arbitrary and capricious basis.

Abuse of something is not an acceptable arguement against proper use of that thing (e.g. Someone being drunk is not a valid reason to ban alcohol - we tried that once; it didn't work so well.).

Stop drunks from driving; absolutely! Randomly stopping people, searching their cars and delaying them indefinately "for the hell of it" "or just in case they might being doing something 'bad'" not so much.

Life can be tragic, life is cruel and unfair (I worked in a military O.R. during an extremely viscious little war, so yeah, I've "been there") but, short of putting the entire country in a concentration camp with 24/7 surveillance, no privacy, and millions of armed guards, bad things are going to happen. In fact, bad things would still happen, even in that control-freak's fantasy - just "different" bad things)

So, stop the drunks, stop the dangerous recklessness, stop people from disturbing the peace, etc. Probable cause (legitimite probale cause - not, I didn't like his "type") is the tool to be used (not abused).

And then leave everyone else alone.

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Old 10-22-2008, 01:21 PM   #30
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In fact, I'm pretty sure in all states, driving is considered a privilege, not a right.
Agreed but haven't you ever wondered how the Founders would feel about such nonsense ?

The basis for driving is simply a mode of transportation that the Government has twisted into a money making scheme like everything else .

First you have to take a test which costs you a fee then if you pass you must buy a permit , another fee then another test with a fee and then finally a license that must be renewed periodically . Each and every time requiring a fee .

If you don't renew on time you get to start from square one .

Then of course there are the multiple fees involved with the actual "Vehicle" of your choice . First you must pay a sales tax when you buy the thing , then there is a safety inspection , an Emissions inspection and licensing and in some places City Stickers which by the way all require the payment of sales tax on each item . Also in many states you must pay Personal Property taxes each and every year for owning the vehicle .

The same kind of things happen with Boats just not quite as many fees .

Now lets take it back to Preautomobile days .

Did one have to get permits and take tests and acquire licenses to ride a horse or "Drive" a Wagon ? Absolutely not !

Now no doubt someone is going to bring up good old public safety and how people must be formally "Taught" the things to drive a car or truck and not the old modes of transportation and speak of auto accidents etc. etc. .

While not on as grand of a scale mainly due to the lessened population densities fatalities with the old modes did happen and were quite serious .

Were people not thrown from horses ? Didn't horses on occasions become uncontrollable and just take off running with a rider unable to control it ? Didn't people die from being kicked by horses ?

Runaway horses pulling wagons no doubt killed thousands over the years yet did your horses have to have a license plate attached to their Butts so the town Marshal could identify it as a possible dangerous animal that he shouldn't allow on the streets of the town where women and children walk ?

What about something on a much grander scale , a cattle drive . Did people need licenses and permits for those ? A cattle stampede would destroy anything in it's way , wasn't that dangerous ?

Shouldn't a towns law enforcement have wanted to make sure the cowboys running one were properly qualified and licensed before bringing thousands of dangerous animals within a few miles of their towns or even right down the middle of it ?

We managed for thousands of years without stupid laws that could have been created and even been eloquently justified all in the name of "Public Safety" which is nothing more than a smoke screen to sell the harassment of the lawabidingng citizen minding his own business and to pick his pockets legally .

The cops can't even manage to catch the truly dangerous criminals or the courts to deal with those that they do , the last thing they should be doing is "Creating" criminals with stupid laws and bothering the people who aren't even breaking those insane laws .
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