Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Discussion Forums > The Club House > I found john galt!!!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #31
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 899
Liked 182 Times on 126 Posts

Default

Gentlemen :
I hope everyone including Jim gets a chance to read Francisco D'Anconia's speech on money . It starts around Page 410 of Atlas Shrugged . It may be the best piece of writing you ever read and it is thought-provoking to say the least .
There are no real people in the book . It is a novel pure and simple . Ayn Rand intended it to be enjoyable as entertainment reading even if the reader ignored the ideas . She combined elements of suspense, science fiction, romance, mystery and a saga . The result is a book that's sold over 8 million copies, that is the best-selling novel of all time and this despite some very harsh reviews from the critics .
In a national poll, this book placed second as the book people said influenced their lives the most . The Bible won .
The book depicts a world that has generally gone communist and a U.S. of A. that is being ruined by bad philosophy . The book is an attack on socialism, mysticism, facism and altruism . It presents a moral defense of capitalism ( not the usual defense based on pragmatism and tradition ) .
I don't think it is impossible to do what the great producers did in the book ; to launch a capitalist strike .
Maybe we can declare a John Galt Day : a day for a general strike to crash partially-socialist America . We could declare ourselves "slaves no more" !
Ayn Rand found that many people didn't fully comprehend her ideas when they read the book so she gave a series of lectures later . See the links below for more :
http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_man_rights

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_the_nature_of_gov ernment

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ari_ayn_rand_the_objectivist_e thics

http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html

http://www.givemeliberty.50megs.com/An%20Economics%20Lesson.htm

Nervous woman : " Senor D'Anconia, what do you think is going to happen to the world ? "

Francisco D'Anconia : " Just exactly what it deserves ".

nervous woman : " Oh, how cruel " !

- Atlas Shrugged P. 410-

__________________

Last edited by Rentacop; 05-04-2013 at 08:00 PM.
Rentacop is offline  
KJG67 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:19 AM   #32
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 8,367
Liked 4722 Times on 2695 Posts
Likes Given: 3743

Default

I've read it twice, and plan to read it again.

It is a novel by pure definition, but in the same light that the works of Plato, Kierkegaard, Hegel, and many others great minds were novels.

locutus is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 02:36 AM   #33
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 899
Liked 182 Times on 126 Posts

Default

There's plenty of non-fiction available from the Ayn Rand Institute, some of it written by Ayn Rand herself . www.aynrandinstitute.org
I also recommend watching her interviews with Tom Snyder and Mike Wallace, now posted on YouTube .

YouTube has a John Stossel program on Atlas Shrugged that aired on FOX Business .

The Atlas Shrugged movie ( Parts 1 & 2 released so far ) has been disappointing . Part 1 failed to make the philosophical points clear enough even though the talented actors gave it their all . Part 2 was made more like a modern action movie and I found it unpleasant to watch . Part 3 is in the works .
What is needed is a simplified approach : Dispense with the sub-plots and minor characters . Make it a mystery story about finding out if John Galt exists, who is behind the disappearances of producers and what motivates the government to act destructively . Focus on good lines and a pace like a 1950s movie .

__________________
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 03:03 AM   #34
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,617
Liked 812 Times on 621 Posts
Likes Given: 125

Default

The premise of the movers and shakers abandoning misordered society until it falls under its own weight is entertaining. And impossible. Noone is irreplaceable. People, society, companies and governments go on. Maybe more like the tyrannical elites prefer. Study history and science -- entropy is the norm.

Rand's books were philosophical vehicles -- please don't trivialize them as either just novels and certainly not parables.

As for the philosophy savant: just say no!

__________________

Last edited by HockaLouis; 05-05-2013 at 03:12 AM.
HockaLouis is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 03:38 AM   #35
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MoreAltitude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 433
Liked 153 Times on 90 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus
As for Rand's work, it's neither fact nor fiction. It's philosophy. Like Plato's "Republic" or Kierkegaard's "Truth or Subjectivity." Often, we can learn as much from great thinkers as we do from provable fact.
How sooo very true!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop
There's plenty of non-fiction available from the Ayn Rand Institute, some of it written by Ayn Rand herself . www.aynrandinstitute.org
I also recommend watching her interviews with Tom Snyder and Mike Wallace, now posted on YouTube .
If you get NetFlix streaming movies, it has a great documentary on the life of Rand. A great watch, I actually saw the documentary first before reading and watching the book/movies, and credit it for igniting my interest...
__________________

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved

MoreAltitude is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 05:42 AM   #36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DrumJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Here in the holler....
Posts: 4,823
Liked 1616 Times on 944 Posts
Likes Given: 1894

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
No, I haven't. And have no plans on doing so along with a couple of other books I will not read, Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto or Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

You may be right about the cult following on Atlas Shrugged.

Jim
Damning something before getting any knowledge of context. I bet you where a real good politician.
...BAAAAAAAA
Tow the line Spanky...Nothing to see here <fingers in ears> LALALAALALALAALALALAAALALALA


__________________

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

DrumJunkie is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 02:04 PM   #37
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 899
Liked 182 Times on 126 Posts

Default

Guys : Let's not go out of our way to humiliate bigjim .

Bigjim : Unless you really are a troll, don't go away . Read and reconsider and let us know if your opinion changes .
From Harry Binswanger :
"Obama seems to borrowing his speeches from the villains of Atlas Shrugged:



"Genius is a superstition, Jim," said Dr. Ferris slowly, with an odd kind of emphasis, as if knowing that he was naming the unnamed in all their minds.



"There's no such thing as the intellect. A man's brain is a social product. A sum of influences that he's picked up from those around him. Nobody invents anything, he merely reflects what's floating in the social atmosphere. A genius is an intellectual scavenger and a greedy hoarder of the ideas which rightfully belong to society, from which he stole them. All thought is theft."



And consider this exchange between Cherryl and Taggart.

"Mr. Taggart, what is it that makes you so unhappy?" "Why should you care whether I am or not?" "Because--well, if you haven't the right to be happy and proud, who has?"



"That's what I want to know--who has?" He turned to her abruptly, the words exploding as if a safety fuse had blown. "He didn't invent iron ore and blast furnaces, did he?"....

....The whole purpose of "You did not build it" is to equate people, to drag down the great to the level of the average or sub-average. But if that were true, it would mean any corner lout could be yanked off the street, plunked down at a desk or at a lab bench and do what the great entrepreneurs, scientists, and inventors have done. The only reason Joe Sixpack didn't find the Higgs boson is that he didn't happen to be provided with a hadron collider. The bully from your sixth grade didn't happen to write Atlas Shrugged because . . . well things just didn't flow that way.

If we were all equal, there would be no need to say we are all equal. That would be one of the facts that every equal person would already know. Because no one would build knowledge, individual knowledge held apart from the collective. "
- Harry Binswanger-


Atlas Shrugged Flying Off Shelves

Sales of Atlas Shrugged from last year are
in—and the numbers are fantastic. In 2011
more than 445,000 copies of English editions
of Atlas Shrugged were sold. Last year’s sales
mark the second-highest annual sales numbers
for the novel.
Commented Yaron Brook, ARI’s executive
director: “This is incredible. Since Obama was
elected, Atlas Shrugged has sold more than 1.5
million copies. This is unheard of in the publishing
industry, for a fifty-five-year-old novel to
register sales of this magnitude. And what’s even
more remarkable is that this is even more than
the book sold in the immediate years after its
publication—when it was a best seller!
“The upward sales trend is very encouraging,”
continued Dr. Brook. “It means people are more
and more interested and open to Rand’s ideas.”
Sales of Atlas Shrugged peaked in 2009
when 520,000 copies of the US and UK editions
were sold.

-www.aynrand.org- " Impact " newsletter

" You don't have to worry about the intellectuals, Wesley, just put a few of them on the government payroll and send them out to preach precisely the sort of thing Mr. Kinnon mentioned : that the blame rests on the victims . "
- Dr. Ferris- P. 547, Atlas Shrugged

__________________

Last edited by Rentacop; 05-10-2013 at 02:12 PM.
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #38
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
12fretter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 401
Liked 49 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

One of the best books I've ever read, twice. But there are some serious misconceptions about this book, imo. She wasn't actually prophetic and this wasn't entirely fiction. Come on guys. She lived through the Russian revolution. She saw both sides and all the middle. This book was a warning to us of something she already saw happen. It wasn't written about what happened in Russia, it was written about what could happen in such a great capitalistic society as we have if we let it progressivism fester, strangely, as EXACTLY how it is going now.

My opinion, call this fiction if you want, right up until you read it. Then decide.

__________________

12FRETTER

12fretter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 01:11 AM   #39
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 899
Liked 182 Times on 126 Posts

Default

12fretter :
I meant " prophetic " in a figurative sense, that the events in the book are coming to pass . In other words, we agree .
Rand wrote the book, as she put it, in the hope that it would not be prophetic . She wrote it as a warning . Again, we agree .
The word , " Fiction " simply means that the characters and events are made up . Fiction doesn't have to be low-grade entertainment literature . In this case, fiction is a means to illustrate ideas and to depict events that had not yet happened .

" What were they thinking now, the champions of need and the lechers of pity ?--she wondered. What were they counting on ? Those who had once simpered, " I don't want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they'll never miss it ! "

P.915 Atlas Shrugged ( thoughts of Dagny Taggart )

__________________
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 02:42 AM   #40
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
12fretter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 401
Liked 49 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Rent,

I didn't mean to be pointing any fingers. I just think that Rand has been misunderstood for a long time. My brother the Obummer supporter hears Ayn Rand and immediately cops an attitude about how she must be an ultra right wing conservative nut job mega capitalist. Has he bothered reading her? Nope. Just formed an opinion because someone misunderstood her intentions of this book. I guess if you haven't read "We the living" you might not get just how painful her life had been and how she is begging us to not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'm passionate!! Who knew.

__________________

12FRETTER

12fretter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
John Roberts? Meet John Marshall. KalashnikovJosh Politics, Religion and Controversy 0 07-03-2012 06:49 AM
John D. I need info please. bobbyb13 AR-15 Discussion 1 01-22-2009 12:28 AM
John R. Lott, Jr. Kelly J Politics, Religion and Controversy 0 09-05-2008 04:13 PM