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Old 12-01-2011, 01:57 AM   #1
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Default Hypothetical Situation- Advice needed... When to shoot?

Hello, due to my father's occupation we are under constant threat- as in, literal death threats. I have often pondered how to react in a given situation. I haven't had any training or anything, and I do not have my concealed carry permit (I am underage). My dad, also, refuses to keep his handgun (a taurus Judge) loaded. I have tried to convince him to have it loaded, because it will be useless if it isn't.

Anyways, I currently live at home, and I always thought "if someone breaks into our home and has a weapon or is an obvious threat to me or my family, I will not hesitate to shoot" (I keep all my guns in my room, although usually unloaded, although I might start keeping my shotgun loaded, it certainly doesn't do any good unloaded, however I figured I might have time to go into my closet and load it while the perpetrator is distracted with my parents)

So this is completely hypothetical, but I would like to contemplate the scenario before it actually happens, so that I don't have any regrets due to spur of the moment thinking.

Here is the scenario that I am recently troubled with-

Let's say I wake up in the middle of the night to some commotion, and I grab my weapon. I exit my room and make my way through my house to find my parents being held at gun point. The perpetrator is occupied with my parents and doesn't notice me sneaking up on him in the dark (If he were to see me and move the gun in my direction, considering my parents were well out of the way, obviously I would blast him) Should I shoot or try to negotiate? Someone brought to my attention that in a scenario like that, pulling out a gun or shooting an individual may cause them to start opening fire and killing people. The last thing I want to do is have my parents killed, if it could have been avoided by cooperating and not trying to fight back. I never gave it any thought. My thought is, I didn't cause the man to pull the trigger, that is on him. Also, there is no way of knowing if I would have not opened fire or came at the perp. with a gun, whether or not he would have killed us.

The question is, given this situation- me finding my parents at gunpoint in the middle of the night (or day, whenever), do I open fire? Do I try to negotiate? Or do I just "cooperate", hoping the man doesn't kill me or my family? The last option seems stupid to me, but like I said I wouldn't want to bring out a gun if it triggers the ******* into going into full on attack mode. But how the hell would I know how he will react? My thought is, if he doesn't want to get killed, don't come into my house waving a gun at my family.

Also, let's say I cannot get a clear shot- my parents are behind the target (the perp) and I don't want to risk any collateral damage. What the hell do I do?

I want to be prepared for this ****, I mean, most likely it will never happen, and I sure as hell hope it doesn't, but if it does I want to know what the hell I am doing. All I have is a .22 pistol, a .22 rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun (with bird shot), and a .30-.30. That's all I got to work with, I mean I could get some buck shot (but if it happened tonight, I would only have birdshot, so I'd havta make due) but I'm pretty sure getting blasted with some bird shot in the torso from 5 feet away would screw a man up.

I am banking on the shotgun, I have it in a fairly easily accessible position.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

By the way- this goes for anything- not just my parents. Let's say someone has a gun pointed at someone who isn't me- (obviously an attacker pointing a gun at an innocent person, no confusion about that). When should I pull a weapon (if I had a carry permit) and when should I shoot? When should you NOT draw your weapon?

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Old 12-01-2011, 02:05 AM   #2
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My dads job causes us to have the same sort of situation although his past is way behind our family and we have moved cities although he is still a police officer. He does though, keep is .38 special loaded and next to his bed and I also keep my shotgun loaded with turkey load next to my bed so I would load yours if you are this worried about it happening. As for shooting or not, it depends on if you can sneak up behind him and just press the barrel of your shotgun against his back or something. That sure would scare the sh*t out of me. If you don't have a clear shot, I'd also bring your .22 pistol with you so you wont have just a scattergun to use. But that's just me

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Old 12-01-2011, 09:33 AM   #3
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First, get to know the state statutes.
Second, get some training. Even the NRA course of Don't Be a Victim may help.

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Old 12-01-2011, 09:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Giveth View Post
...however I figured I might have time to go into my closet and load it while the perpetrator is distracted with my parents)
Here's one thing to consider. You are 'hoping' the perp is distracted. Hoping you have time to load. Hoping you can sneak up, etc. Hope isn't a strategy. Be careful and purposeful in your decisions.

You may consider asking your Dad the same question: "What if my life is at stake while you are looking for ammo?"
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:00 PM   #5
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Well I added the perp being distracted in there because if the guy saw me and started to move the gun in my direction, considering my parents were out of the way, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, there would be no question about it.

And of course, in real life I'm sure these things never go 'as planned'. I just need some idea of when to shoot and when to pull out a gun. Just because I was told that there are situations where it is "safer" for those around you to not be a hero. If it comes down to my own life, I'm gonna go out with a fight. But if it comes to the lives of others, I want to make the best decision. Also, in a scenario like this, the last thing on my mind will be the damn laws and statutes. Obviously I take those in to consideration on a daily basis but if I have to break a law or two in self defense then so be it.

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Old 12-01-2011, 12:14 PM   #6
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If I peek around the corner and see mom and dad held at gunpoint with a clear fire arrangement, I'm going to shoot.

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Old 12-01-2011, 12:16 PM   #7
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I guess to simplify the question- if there is an armed perpetrator holding my parents at gun point, and is unaware of my presence, what do I do?

Do I announce my presence and hope he cooperates?

Do I go ahead and just shoot, although he has a gun pointed at my parents?

Do I wait until he takes the gun off of them and then shoot?

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Old 12-01-2011, 12:22 PM   #8
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If I peek around the corner and see mom and dad held at gunpoint with a clear fire arrangement, I'm going to shoot.
That was always my plan. However it was recently brought to my attention the person may shoot and kill once I shoot him. In a dying breathe sort of way. I don't know. I never considered it. I would rather shoot and kill him than take the chance of not shooting and then he kill my parents. But if I shot him and then he shot my parents (if that's possible) I would always be wondering in my mind if I should have shot... But then again it is all the perps fault
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:46 PM   #9
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Okay here are a few things to consider...

1. Are your parents or ANYONE in your house in danger of IMMEDIATE AND OTHERWISE UNAVOIDABLE DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY HARM? The answer to this question if, as you claim, your family is "under constant threat of death" can ONLY be an emphatic YES.

In MOST jurisdictions you are under NO obligation to retreat or warn in your home. Giving warning, especially in the presense of a susbject's weapon is foolish. Why give THEM any more advantage than they already have?

A 12 gauge loaded, even with a light birdshot load at the 5-foot distance you are speaking of will spread VERY VERY little, and be VERY VERY lethal. Is it the ideal? No it isn't...BUT...given the alternative .22lr...it is a viable self defense tool. The .30-30 is also one helluva self defense weapon. Shot placement with ALL firearms is critical, and the .30-30 WILL penetrate walls. The birdshot in the shotgun will be the LEAST LIKELY to penetrate into another room or another dwelling, but the possibility is there and VERY REAL. So....be damned sure you don't miss. If you hit your target with the birdshot...and there's no reason to expect you wouldn't if you do your job...the probability of it penetrating a torso and then a wall is extremely remote.

In the situation you describe....AIM DEAD CENTER TORSO. That will be your most effective stopping shot.

2. An unloaded firearm is a paperweight if it is one that may be called upon for self defense or to "repel boarders" as they say.

My advice....buy some #1 or #4 buck...in 2 3/4" shells. The magnum loads are heavier recoiling and the 1 or 4 will still be as the fist of an angry god at in-home ranges without AS MUCH danger of overpenetration if you hit your target. It IS a decisive stopper.

3. I would also keep the .22 pistol loaded and close to heand. If you have a down subject...the .22 can serve as immediate backup that will allow the use of a hand for first aid (if your family members have been injured) or to call 911 which should be done immediately. You also didn't mention what platform your shotgun is in....single shot, double barrel, pump, etc. In ANY case, you should have spare shells on a shell carrier ON the gun. Much more easily accessible than a pocketful of loose shells....remember you MAY be fighting in your pj's or tighty whiteys...and thus you will be fighting with what is IN or ON the gun.

Remember...you have ONE CHANCE not to **** this up. Do NOT give an attacker one extra bit of advantage. If you are presented with a shot, you better damned well take it RIGHT THE **** NOW, and you better damned well better SHOOT TO STOP. Forget all the "tacticool mall ninja horsehit"...you aren't trained for it...you are NOT tactical. I am a retired SWAT officer and instructor, and I don't consider MYSELF "tactical" I leave that to the self-labeled badasses and wannabe slick-smooth operators who learned all they know about self defense from magazines and ignorance pooling at the local gun shop. You are simply a person trying to defend your family in the face of immediate death or grave bodily harm.

GET TRAINING. The NRA offers a pretty good self defense in the home course. Though they don't take the place of real training and practice...there are videos online from Mas Ayoob, Clint Smith, and Rob Pincus that can get you started.

Finally...make sure you know the law regarding self defense in your area. You didn't mention where you're from...but let's assume it is not Commiefornia, Massachussucks, or The Big Rotten Apple...the rest of the country pretty well understands the castle doctrine and home defense. BUT...it is YOUR responsibility to know the law.

Finally finally....good luck, and I hope you never have to be in that situation.

Oh yeah....if you're a troll...forget all I just told you and buy a squirt gun.

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Old 12-01-2011, 01:00 PM   #10
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Oh yeah....if you're a troll...forget all I just told you and buy a squirt gun.
Gotta love it.
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