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-   -   How are wildcat rounds/guns made? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/how-wildcat-rounds-guns-made-54541/)

texaswoodworker 01-01-2012 10:37 AM

How are wildcat rounds/guns made?
 
I have been wondering this for a while. If someone wanted a round that does not exist commercially or possibly privately (lets just use something like a 17-06. (30-06 necked fown to fit a .17 HMR bullet) as an example) Could they just put a cartridge through a die to make it fit the right size bullet? How would they go about either having a rifle made for them, or making it themselves? Could they just get a heavy barrel for a .17 HMR and have it milled so that a 30-06 cartridge would work with it and so it could be attached to the reciever? Could they just use a reciever designed to use a 30-06? This is something I have just been curious about. Wildcat round have always interested me so I just want to know how it is done.

Bonus Question. Since I used a 17-06 as an example, I would like to know how well ya'll think it would work for either super long range varmit hunting or target shooting. Wouldn't this round cause the barrel to wear out faster?

downsouth 01-01-2012 10:56 AM

My opinion, the round would be too hot and not penatrate. It would sure "bark here and bite yonder" pretty damn quik.

Axxe55 01-01-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texaswoodworker (Post 664473)
I have been wondering this for a while. If someone wanted a round that does not exist commercially or possibly privately (lets just use something like a 17-06. (30-06 necked fown to fit a .17 HMR bullet) as an example) Could they just put a cartridge through a die to make it fit the right size bullet? How would they go about either having a rifle made for them, or making it themselves? Could they just get a heavy barrel for a .17 HMR and have it milled so that a 30-06 cartridge would work with it and so it could be attached to the reciever? Could they just use a reciever designed to use a 30-06? This is something I have just been curious about. Wildcat round have always interested me so I just want to know how it is done.

Bonus Question. Since I used a 17-06 as an example, I would like to know how well ya'll think it would work for either super long range varmit hunting or target shooting. Wouldn't this round cause the barrel to wear out faster?

first step would be to draw up a blueprint of the cartridge with all the measurements, then have a reamer made to chamber a barrel, then get a die maker to make a set of dies. i know you were just using the 17-06 as an example, but there was one made once but as far as i know it was maare a novelty and there wasn't a rifle made for it. they said it was too small a caliber for such a large case, that it would be too impractical.

17-06, hmmm, about 6000 fps! disappears soon after leaving the barrel!

texaswoodworker 01-01-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downsouth (Post 664477)
My opinion, the round would be too hot and not penatrate. It would sure "bark here and bite yonder" pretty damn quik.

Quote:

Originally Posted by axxe55 (Post 664480)
first step would be to draw up a blueprint of the cartridge with all the measurements, then have a reamer made to chamber a barrel, then get a die maker to make a set of dies. i know you were just using the 17-06 as an example, but there was one made once but as far as i know it was maare a novelty and there wasn't a rifle made for it. they said it was too small a caliber for such a large case, that it would be too impractical.

17-06, hmmm, about 6000 fps! disappears soon after leaving the barrel!

Thanks for clearifying the process for me axxe. It sounds like it takes a lot of time and money to make one of these rounds.

I had a feeling that it would not be a practical round. I have seen a round that would put it to shame though. Has anyone ever heard of a .17/.50 BMG? That looks like a hell of a round. :eek::D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...vz/1750bmg.jpg

Axxe55 01-01-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texaswoodworker (Post 664487)
Thanks for clearifying the process for me axxe. It sounds like it takes a lot of time and money to make one of these rounds.

I had a feeling that it would not be a practical round. I have seen a round that would put it to shame though. Has anyone ever heard of a .17/.50 BMG? That looks like a hell of a round. :eek::D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...vz/1750bmg.jpg

17/50 bmg, hmmm, about 10000 fps! maybe, it disappears into time travel because it's moving so fast and kills varmints in the future!

c3shooter 01-01-2012 01:14 PM

As far as the "how fast do ya wanna go?" question, there are a couple of physical limits.

The first is how fast the gasses expand from burning gunpowder. Since the bullet (greater mass) will always be slightly behind that. Theoretical upper limit somewhere around 5400 fps

Second limit is what the bullet can withstand. First there is the linear acceleration- how much push can the bullet take? How much "push back" from the AIR can it take before it comes apart. Then there is rotational force- at 5000 fps, a bullet in a 1-9 barrel is spinning at WHAT rpm? Egad! (PS- this is part of the reason that the sabot round fired by the M1 Abrams tank is a smoothbore- no spin)

Then there is the "rebound" limit of metals- when the bullet leaves the barrel, where it has been squeezed, and suddenly is no longer being squeezed, it rebounds. Remington found this was making the early Accelerator rounds blow up when the sabot sprang away- reported fix was a much harder than normal bullet.

Third limit- itty bitty bullet in BIG case- primer can start the bullet out of the case before powder fully ignites. Resulting in obstructed bore. Or, as Marvin the Martian would say, "Where is the earth shattering kaboom?"

The ultimate would be the 40mm cannon round necked down to a sewing needle. but I plan to go the other way. I want a .25 ACP necked UP to a 12 g slug. Velocity might not be much, but would duplicate getting hit by a bowling ball!

texaswoodworker 01-01-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axxe55 (Post 664499)
17/50 bmg, hmmm, about 10000 fps! maybe, it disappears into time travel because it's moving so fast and kills varmints in the future!

Prairie dogs in the year 2525 should beware. :D

Quote:

c3shooter

As far as the "how fast do ya wanna go?" question, there are a couple of physical limits.

The first is how fast the gasses expand from burning gunpowder. Since the bullet (greater mass) will always be slightly behind that. Theoretical upper limit somewhere around 5400 fps

Second limit is what the bullet can withstand. First there is the linear acceleration- how much push can the bullet take? How much "push back" from the AIR can it take before it comes apart. Then there is rotational force- at 5000 fps, a bullet in a 1-9 barrel is spinning at WHAT rpm? Egad! (PS- this is part of the reason that the sabot round fired by the M1 Abrams tank is a smoothbore- no spin)

Then there is the "rebound" limit of metals- when the bullet leaves the barrel, where it has been squeezed, and suddenly is no longer being squeezed, it rebounds. Remington found this was making the early Accelerator rounds blow up when the sabot sprang away- reported fix was a much harder than normal bullet.

Third limit- itty bitty bullet in BIG case- primer can start the bullet out of the case before powder fully ignites. Resulting in obstructed bore. Or, as Marvin the Martian would say, "Where is the earth shattering kaboom?"
Well, since there are limits to what a bullet can do, I guess that means 10 mile kill shots in the future are out of the question unless we start using titanium bullets and a more rapidly expanding powder. :eek:
Thanks for the info, it was very interesting.

texaswoodworker 01-01-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 664516)
The ultimate would be the 40mm cannon round necked down to a sewing needle. but I plan to go the other way. I want a .25 ACP necked UP to a 12 g slug. Velocity might not be much, but would duplicate getting hit by a bowling ball!

I would not mind shooting either one of those rounds. I would be interested to see how they turned out. :D


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