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Old 08-26-2007, 10:05 PM   #11
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A significant sticking point in another forum I participate on is the definition of "right-wing", "leftist", "liberal" and "conservative".

In this country -- in stark contrast to much of the rest of the world -- a conservative is someone who wants a return to the values of the constitution. A liberal is someone who wants even *more* freedom than what the constitution spells out.

A leftist, on the other hand, wants to force me to pay for all sorts of benefits I may not want (and which I may not opt out of), wants to force me to lay off certain drugs and foods, wants to force me to wear certain apparel (helmets, jackets) when engaging in certain activities, wants to prevent me from engaging in certain activities in public or around minors, etc.

A right-winger may want to have laws drafted which support their particular beliefs. For example, an amendment banning "gay marriage". Personally, I don't believe the government has any business messing with a religious sacrament before God. Civil unions? Fine. Marriage? No, that's an issue for a church or synagogue to tend to.

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Old 08-26-2007, 10:12 PM   #12
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"Warrantless wiretapping," for instance, applies ONLY to calls to or from numbers in foreign nations KNOWN to be connected to terrorist organizations; that's exactly the kind of thing the administration was pilloried for NOT doing before 9-11.
This is important. The leftist media have ranted for some time about "abuses" in this regard, yet no one has actually been abused. It is prudent to monitor traffic along known channels frequented by bad guys, whether we're talking forums, web sites or telephone lines.

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Like it or not, we're at war. And I don't only mean the war in Iraq; we are at war with radical Islamic Jihadists, and that war will continue (and in my opinion, intensify) if we pull out of Iraq tomorrow. This war came to us; we did not seek it, but we have no choice in whether or not to fight it. The stated goal of the enemy is the total destruction of Western culture, the forced conversion of everyone on Earth to fundamentalist Islam, and the imposition of an absolutist theocracy and medieval Sharia law. What happens to our civil liberties then?
Thank you. You're exactly right.

One major issue many people have is separating two sets of rules of engagement: civilian and military. Civil law should apply most of the time, ideally. When at war and when the enemy is among us, military law may need to apply.

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Welcome to the middle east. We're all Israelis now.
That is a very chilling statement. Thankfully, I don't think you're right just yet. But we may not be far behind.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
A significant sticking point in another forum I participate on is the definition of "right-wing", "leftist", "liberal" and "conservative".

In this country -- in stark contrast to much of the rest of the world -- a conservative is someone who wants a return to the values of the constitution. A liberal is someone who wants even *more* freedom than what the constitution spells out.

A leftist, on the other hand, wants to force me to pay for all sorts of benefits I may not want (and which I may not opt out of), wants to force me to lay off certain drugs and foods, wants to force me to wear certain apparel (helmets, jackets) when engaging in certain activities, wants to prevent me from engaging in certain activities in public or around minors, etc.

A right-winger may want to have laws drafted which support their particular beliefs. For example, an amendment banning "gay marriage". Personally, I don't believe the government has any business messing with a religious sacrament before God. Civil unions? Fine. Marriage? No, that's an issue for a church or synagogue to tend to.
Hi bkt. I can see why there would be a sticking point about those definitions of conservative/liberal, since they have baked into them that one of them is essentially right (or legally justified anyway) and the other is not.

I like this definition of liberalism from Wikipedia:

"Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government. All liberals - as well as some adherents of other political ideologies - support the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law."
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:36 PM   #14
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I like the definition, too, but the term has been hijacked by neo-Marxist pigs in this country. See below.

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I like this definition of liberalism from Wikipedia:

"Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.
That's more of a textbook proper definition, but certainly not what we have come to expect from people in the U.S. who call themselves "liberal". Who wants to force me to pay for health care that I may not want? Who wants to force me to wear a seatbelt or helmet, prevent me from smoking and prevent me from ingesting certain foods? Who wants to squelch religious expression, including greetings and decorations? Who wants to take from me the money that I earn and the land I have improved to give to others who have less? Who favors higher taxes and bigger government? Who wants to create "weapons-free zones" to deny me my basic human right of self-protection?

Liberals.

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Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity.
Libertarianism might do that but liberalism certainly does not. Liberalism emphasizes dependence on the government and equal outcome regardless of opportunity. Hence the "dumbing down" of American education.

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Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government. All liberals - as well as some adherents of other political ideologies - support the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law."
Those who call themselves "liberals" in this country absolutely do not believe in freedom of thought and speech. A conservative on a college campus is often shunned and shouted down by liberals. Conservative speakers have been shouted off the stage and physically abused at many "free thinking, open minded" college campuses. Go ahead and express skepticism at anthropogenic global warming in a roomful of "liberals" and see how they react.

Liberals routinely wish to increase the power and scope of government, not bring it back to its original size and scope. Liberals often deplore a free market and they're no more transparent in government than anyone else. In fact, the bulk of corruption charges you read about stem from Democrats who claim to be "liberal".

Don't get me started on elections and voting and "liberals". To maintain their base, they need more and more people dependent on them. Hence their desire to permit felons to vote, illegal aliens and, of course, people who have been dead for some time. "Vote Early, Vote Often" is not just a silly joke with these clowns.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:58 PM   #15
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Found out about the site from the JeepForum

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Old 08-27-2007, 11:30 PM   #16
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Found out about the site from the JeepForum
Thanks for staying on topic
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