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-   -   Haven't We Had Enough Already? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/havent-we-had-enough-already-12849/)

intell 04-13-2009 01:57 PM

Haven't We Had Enough Already?
 
I know this is going to ruffle many a feathers here and it may as well be dubbed as an act of audacity to talk about gun control on a forum that is exclusively dedicated to the promotion of knowledge about guns, that too in my very first post.

This is one risk I am ready to take for the sake of the goal I have set for myself i.e. to appeal to the conscience of one and all especially those who are passionately attracted towards guns. To do that I have to touch the hornet's nest and so it be. This can't possibly be done by posting in a 'no guns' forum. It has to be somewhere like here!

I begin by asking you all that don't you think that we have had enough of gun related violence in our country and it is time to rethink whether this obsession with guns is the right thing to do especially in the context of present day emerging situation when acts of mindless shooting/violence occur at a threateningly intermittent rate and frequency, simply because it is so easy to lay one's hands on guns in this country.

I know you would say we teach people to act responsibly and in a disciplined fashion with their guns but in a moment of rage this discipline can get blown to smithereens/winds. And this is what that has been happening in most acts of shootouts that have occurred in the recent past, be it in the schools, universities or elsewhere.

Don't you think that we need to be away from guns at that particular crucial moment of rage for our own good and the good of everybody else.

It seems guns were good things when there was much less stress and strain in the bygone days but now they can be more of a foe than a friend in a given situation in the changed socio-economic scenario. It has been proved time and again.

When shall we take a note of it?

Let your bricks or bouquets rain now :)

Benning Boy 04-13-2009 02:13 PM

If you're willing to take the ranting you have just invoked, some here are willing to engage you in discourse.

What do you propose?

Benning Boy 04-13-2009 02:19 PM

Okay, tell us more about your self set goal.

intell 04-13-2009 02:23 PM

Quote:

If you're willing to take the ranting you have just invoked, some here are willing to engage you in discourse.

What do you propose?
As long as the discourse is civil and constructive, no harm :)

Benning Boy 04-13-2009 02:27 PM

I'll play.

Tell us about yourself. Since with a little reading, all of us are open books here, and since you chose to forgo the introduction section, I think it's only fair, and may aid you in finding what you seek.

Dillinger 04-13-2009 02:35 PM

Well, Welcome to the Forum - although I doubt you will be sticking around long. I give it a week. Tops.

But, allow me to retort.

You're obvious lack of the true facts aside, it would appear that you feel all guns are the reason for all gun crime. Therefore, all cars are responsible for all drunk driving accidents, and all pencils cause misspelled words.

The British have banned firearms, and recently they tried banning knives in 11 burroughs around London. Guess what happened? Knife crime went up and gun crime also went up because people that are good, honest, law abiding citizens gave up their weapons and the bad guys didn't. Go figure, that is what makes them criminals in the first place.

Now, let's get into the heart of the matter.

Take an individual who is hell bent on doing harm to other people. Be it for sport, for fun, because they are deranged, or because they have had a bad day and need to make the world feel their pain. This is a person that is GOING to do harm, no matter what.

Allow this person access to a gun free zone like a school ( Virginia Tech ) or a church, or other place without weapons for defense. What will the likely outcome be?

Now, take this same person and shove them through the door of a police station with the same intent. What will the likley outcome be?

What is different?

The police are armed and the people in the school and the church are not. That is the very basic reason your position will not hold water.

If you have a wolf, you don't send a sheep to stop him.

Now, you want to take a look at a few cases were there weren't evil "handguns" that lead people to do damage to others? Here's a few examples for you: And these are from OUTSIDE the United States, were guns are not prominent in society.


1939 Japan: Mutsou Toi killed 30 people using an old military war rifle and a pair of swords.

December 1989 Montreal, Quebec: Marc Lépine killed 14 people

April, 1996 Australia: Martin Bryant killed 35 people in a spree killing using knives, homemade weapons and an old rifle

April 2002 Erfurt, Germany: Robert Steinhäuser killed 16 people

April 1982 Gyeongsangnam-do, South Korea : Woo Bum-Kon killed 57 people. FIFTY SEVEN!

Here's a couple of great ones for people that think you can't kill multiple people with anything less than a firearm:

June 2001 Osaka Prefecture, Japan : Mamoru Takuma killed 8 people with a kitchen knife. A normal, ordinary kitchen knife.

June 1964 Colonge, Germany: Walter Seifert killed 10 people with a flamethrower and medievel lance.

August 1982 Darwin, Australia : Douglas Crabbe killed 5 people on a rampage with a Mack Truck.

Recently in Japan a guy rented a truck and mowed down something like 10 people, then got out and started stabbing folks with a kitchen knife. I think 7 of them died. You know what stopped the guy?

A cop showed up, shoved a gun in his face and told him to get down on the ground. You know what he did? Got down on the ground and gave up. Last I heard he was awaiting trial....

Now, imagine if the first person he encountered upon leaving the cab of the truck had a handgun and was prepared to use it.

Recently there were spree killings overseas - a kid went to his old school in Winnenden on March 11th, killed 12 former students and three teachers. Germany has VERY tight gun control laws, and yet this still happened. There were also similar issues in 2002 and 2006 in Germany with the same results. Very strict gun laws, and yet someone bent on doing harm got a weapon and put it to use with evil intentions.

You need to educate yourself with REAL facts about firearms.

Taking away alcohol in the 20's led to more alcohol being produced and being consumed then in the two years prior to the ban.

All forms of street drugs are illegal, and yet you know full well there are people you encounter every day that use those drugs.

Murder. Rape. Arson. Theft. - All illegal. All of them not allowed by law in thsi country. Yet prisions are full of people who have commited these crimes in spite of laws, spelling out in detail, that this behavior is not allowed.

Why? Because the criminals are not playing by the rules.

When will you liberals pull your collective heads out and understand that anyone with a mindset to do something, is going to do it, and it's not the damn tool they use that is to blame?!

JD

Benning Boy 04-13-2009 02:56 PM

Well, that seemed to go well.

Dillinger 04-13-2009 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benning Boy (Post 94133)
Well, that seemed to go well.

Yeah, and it took about 4 minutes from his first post for one of our valued members to flag it as possible trouble as well... LOL

LegatoRedrivers 04-13-2009 03:16 PM

I've stated this is a previously thread, but you're missing the point: We have gun control laws. Over 20,000 of them. And they don't help. And that's because criminals don't obey laws.

Hold on, I think that bears repeating...

Criminals...don't...obey...laws.

There is an article elsewhere in the forum about the total gun ban passed in Autralia...which caused gun-related crimes to jump 200% in one province.

If you'll notice, most of the violent crimes you're speaking are committed by people who aren't legally allowed to have guns in the first place.

Felons cannot legally purchase firearms.
Drug abusers cannot purchase firearms.
Those convicted of domestic violence cannot purchase firearms...legally.

So they break the law. And just like prohibition in the 20s and the war on drugs now, the more the government cracks down, the more readily available they are.

Because as soon as you make something illegal, you make it a multi-million dollar a year industry. As long as some one is willing to pay for it, someone is willing to take the chance of sneaking it in. Or making it illegally in our own back yard. By passing these laws, you don't deter criminals, you create them.

And when you make firearms illegal, you make it next to impossible for the law abiding citizens to defend themselves from the criminals you yourself have just created.

So you know what? You want a total gun ban? Go ahead and pass one.

But the blood that results will be on your hands.

Edit: I apologize, that was uncharacteristically harsh of me. I actually think I passed out for a minute there...

ScottG 04-13-2009 03:18 PM

It's a waste of time talking to people like that.

Here's their whole position in a nutshell:

Interview


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