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Old 12-08-2011, 11:07 PM   #11
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If I'm not mistaken, the feds passed a national HATE CRIMES bill not to long ago. It's not to protect anybody. It's another tool for P.C. Just today the Justice Dept ruled Fort Hood massacre was not a hate crime. It is being classified as Work place violence. ALLA ACkBAR and all.WHATEVER

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Old 12-08-2011, 11:07 PM   #12
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Why are we putting more importance on motives? If you take my life because of my race or sexual orientation vs. a robbery or violent conflict...you still took my life. I guess, so-called hate crimes automatically gets the feds involved..is that how it works? IMO, these laws are garbage and are disrespectful to victims of violent crimes in general. They seem to diminish the value of human life. Is it just me?...Am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing something. The motive is important in any crime. If you were to assault or murder me because I am white, or black, racial hatred is the motive for that crime. If you are trying to rob me for my money and you don't care what color I am money is the motive. If I kill you in a barfight over a racial slur I would say that alcohol would probably be the reason, but the motive might be racial. If your wife kills you because you are abusive to her for years and years it could be self defense. If you cut your kids head off because you think he is possessed by the devil, insanity is the motive.

I don't think you can make a believable argument that a crime that is committed simply due to the race/religion/sexual orientation of the victim is not important because of that one fact.

In my mind if I murder a nice upstanding black guy because he is dating my white daughter but I let the white trash A-hole date her without my interfering there is not only something wrong with me, I should be given a much more severe sentence. This does not diminish the victim in any way, my crime which is racially motivated diminishes me.

Does that make sense?

As far as diminishing the value of human life I cannot think of anything lower than a murder that is committed simply because they victim is gay/black/Muslim or whatever. OK, maybe one thing would be worse and that is those ignorant idiots who murdered non-Muslim Sikhs after 911. 10 years after Sikh murder over 9/11, community continues to blend in and stand out – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

How low can you go but to kill someone that you think you hate due to their beliefs, but you are so stupidly ignorant that you kill the wrong person? I mean it is stupid and ignorant to kill anyone simply for their race/religion/gay/republican/democrat etc..

Nearly 100% of hatred is based in ignorance. Think about that. If you have some particular bias or hatred how much do you truly know about those whom you hate? I honestly know wwwaaaay more whites, and many of them are hateful people. Of the number of blacks, gays, Asians, Indians or whatever that I know, the larger percentage of whites are hateful people. I am personally embarrassed for my race!
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:17 PM   #13
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Yes, you are missing something. The motive is important in any crime. If you were to assault or murder me because I am white, or black, racial hatred is the motive for that crime. If you are trying to rob me for my money and you don't care what color I am money is the motive. If I kill you in a barfight over a racial slur I would say that alcohol would probably be the reason, but the motive might be racial. If your wife kills you because you are abusive to her for years and years it could be self defense. If you cut your kids head off because you think he is possessed by the devil, insanity is the motive.

I don't think you can make a believable argument that a crime that is committed simply due to the race/religion/sexual orientation of the victim is not important because of that one fact.

In my mind if I murder a nice upstanding black guy because he is dating my white daughter but I let the white trash A-hole date her without my interfering there is not only something wrong with me, I should be given a much more severe sentence. This does not diminish the victim in any way, my crime which is racially motivated diminishes me.

Does that make sense?

As far as diminishing the value of human life I cannot think of anything lower than a murder that is committed simply because they victim is gay/black/Muslim or whatever. OK, maybe one thing would be worse and that is those ignorant idiots who murdered non-Muslim Sikhs after 911. 10 years after Sikh murder over 9/11, community continues to blend in and stand out – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

How low can you go but to kill someone that you think you hate due to their beliefs, but you are so stupidly ignorant that you kill the wrong person? I mean it is stupid and ignorant to kill anyone simply for their race/religion/gay/republican/democrat etc..

Nearly 100% of hatred is based in ignorance. Think about that. If you have some particular bias or hatred how much do you truly know about those whom you hate? I honestly know wwwaaaay more whites, and many of them are hateful people. Of the number of blacks, gays, Asians, Indians or whatever that I know, the larger percentage of whites are hateful people. I am personally embarrassed for my race!
A violent crime is a violent crime, PERIOD!

White folk be a hateful bunch, but we as a group have made some great strides in the past handful of decades.

You wanna see some serious hate today....go to the majority black neighborhoods! Blacks are some hatin' ass folk. (Not all, know some good upstanding black folk that just shake their head at their kin....as do i at mine. But it does make for some seriously entertaining conversation ) Reverse discrimination is alive and well.

All that being typed. The fact is, there is no ethnicity or religiuos group that has the market cornered on hate or ignorance.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:23 PM   #14
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Come on, don't start using slurs. I don't care for their lifestyle, but they should be protected TO THE SAME DEGREE as every other American.

The whole hate crime thing as BS. A crime is a crime. End of story.
AGREED!!! I dont agree with the lifestyle either (as i dont agree with MANY lifestyles) But the fact is they ARE americans and a basic American tenant is "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness"...whatever blows your skirt up as long as it isnt affecting MY skirt, i will support!

There are folks out there that do not agree with or understand the joy i get from dropping a deer/ spending the day shivering in a deer stand, or landing a fat trout/ spending the day on a trout stream or spending hours on the range burning powder/sending lead downrange. But that is MY definition of happiness and i DAMN sure dont want folks attacking me for those activities or making constitutional bans against it.

As a firearms enthusiast i would expect a little more understanding considering our "lifestyle" is under constant assault.

A little tolerance please!
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:25 PM   #15
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Yes, you are missing something. The motive is important in any crime. If you were to assault or murder me because I am white, or black, racial hatred is the motive for that crime. If you are trying to rob me for my money and you don't care what color I am money is the motive. If I kill you in a barfight over a racial slur I would say that alcohol would probably be the reason, but the motive might be racial. If your wife kills you because you are abusive to her for years and years it could be self defense. If you cut your kids head off because you think he is possessed by the devil, insanity is the motive.

I don't think you can make a believable argument that a crime that is committed simply due to the race/religion/sexual orientation of the victim is not important because of that one fact.

In my mind if I murder a nice upstanding black guy because he is dating my white daughter but I let the white trash A-hole date her without my interfering there is not only something wrong with me, I should be given a much more severe sentence. This does not diminish the victim in any way, my crime which is racially motivated diminishes me.

Does that make sense?

As far as diminishing the value of human life I cannot think of anything lower than a murder that is committed simply because they victim is gay/black/Muslim or whatever. OK, maybe one thing would be worse and that is those ignorant idiots who murdered non-Muslim Sikhs after 911. 10 years after Sikh murder over 9/11, community continues to blend in and stand out – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

How low can you go but to kill someone that you think you hate due to their beliefs, but you are so stupidly ignorant that you kill the wrong person? I mean it is stupid and ignorant to kill anyone simply for their race/religion/gay/republican/democrat etc..

Nearly 100% of hatred is based in ignorance. Think about that. If you have some particular bias or hatred how much do you truly know about those whom you hate? I honestly know wwwaaaay more whites, and many of them are hateful people. Of the number of blacks, gays, Asians, Indians or whatever that I know, the larger percentage of whites are hateful people. I am personally embarrassed for my race!
Sure...Hate can be used to prove a crime and what motivated a perp. What they are doing here is catagorizing crimes within catagories and placeing a different degree of importance on them.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:30 PM   #16
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Motive is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder. You are no less dead but it does affect the level of punishment your killer will get. A hate crime will generally carry a heavier penalty under the special circumstance provisions in the law and may turn a 2nd degree into a 1st degree. It could also bring on the death penalty.

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Old 12-08-2011, 11:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Vikingdad

Yes, you are missing something. The motive is important in any crime. If you were to assault or murder me because I am white, or black, racial hatred is the motive for that crime. If you are trying to rob me for my money and you don't care what color I am money is the motive. If I kill you in a barfight over a racial slur I would say that alcohol would probably be the reason, but the motive might be racial. If your wife kills you because you are abusive to her for years and years it could be self defense. If you cut your kids head off because you think he is possessed by the devil, insanity is the motive.

I don't think you can make a believable argument that a crime that is committed simply due to the race/religion/sexual orientation of the victim is not important because of that one fact.

In my mind if I murder a nice upstanding black guy because he is dating my white daughter but I let the white trash A-hole date her without my interfering there is not only something wrong with me, I should be given a much more severe sentence. This does not diminish the victim in any way, my crime which is racially motivated diminishes me.

Does that make sense?

As far as diminishing the value of human life I cannot think of anything lower than a murder that is committed simply because they victim is gay/black/Muslim or whatever. OK, maybe one thing would be worse and that is those ignorant idiots who murdered non-Muslim Sikhs after 911. 10 years after Sikh murder over 9/11, community continues to blend in and stand out – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

How low can you go but to kill someone that you think you hate due to their beliefs, but you are so stupidly ignorant that you kill the wrong person? I mean it is stupid and ignorant to kill anyone simply for their race/religion/gay/republican/democrat etc..

Nearly 100% of hatred is based in ignorance. Think about that. If you have some particular bias or hatred how much do you truly know about those whom you hate? I honestly know wwwaaaay more whites, and many of them are hateful people. Of the number of blacks, gays, Asians, Indians or whatever that I know, the larger percentage of whites are hateful people. I am personally embarrassed for my race!
So VikingDad, who are you embarrassed for in the Ft Hood shooting? Do you side with Eric Holder, just work place violence. If this is such a rightious law, why don't they apply it justly? As for you being embarrassed for your race, maybe you should look at those you hang out with. Or maybe you just stereotyped a whole race in your rant. Part of what makes you embarrassed for your own race. Funny how quick that happened
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:10 AM   #18
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What about the motive of self-defense? You stop a threat with lethal force and murder someone. Say it makes it to a grand jury and you need a defense. I'd say motive was important in that case.

It's supposed to be about more punishment for the guilty, not victim punishment.

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Old 12-09-2011, 02:16 AM   #19
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I mean it is stupid and ignorant to kill anyone simply for their race/religion/gay/republican/democrat etc..

Nearly 100% of hatred is based in ignorance. Think about that. If you have some particular bias or hatred how much do you truly know about those whom you hate?
This is all a load of mamby pamby BS.

How ignorant is it to kill anyone simply for money?
How ignorant is it to kill anyone simply because of jealousy?
How ignorant is it to kill anyone simply because of an arguement?
How ignorant is it to kill anyone simply to be relieved of responsibility?
How ignorant is it to kill anyone simply to gain power?

How much do you truly know about those you plot to kill for financial gain?
Nearly 100% of home invasions are for financial gain. How much do you truely know about those whose home you invaded to steal and to take their lives?

So Vikingdad...you place more importance on hate vs. these items I mention???

I find them ALL equally reprehensible.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:17 AM   #20
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Hate Crimes...what's the difference?
An agenda.
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