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Old 08-06-2010, 04:27 PM   #101
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Ladies love the dud. I can chamber it over and over, ALL...NIGHT...LONG!!!
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:28 PM   #102
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:25 PM   #103
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I was given a dozen rounds of this 7mm mag. The photo makes it look like a copper jacket but I think it's steel? Has a lead point...soft point? The base says norma 7mm rem mag. Must to be at least 20 yrs old.

So do I shoot them through my Husky at the range?
Save them for hunting or SHTF ammo?
Or toss em out?
Many european rifle bullets are cupro-nickel jacketed. These often look silverish and will be slightly attracted to a magnet. They are safe to shoot. Steel jacketed soft point would be a very weird paradox indeed.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:31 AM   #104
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Why is the nomenclature of so many rounds misleading. For example:

480 Ruger = .475
460 S&W magnum = .452
454 Casull = .452
44 magnum = .429
38 Special = .357
380 auto = .355

and they're still doing it with new ammo:

327 Federal Magnum = .312

And I could go on and on, but you get the point. I really want to know why?
Why didn't they just call it a 429 Remington Magnum?

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Old 08-07-2010, 12:37 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by mesinge2 View Post
Why is the nomenclature of so many rounds misleading. For example:

480 Ruger = .475
460 S&W magnum = .452
454 Casull = .452
44 magnum = .429
38 Special = .357
380 auto = .355

And I could go on and on, but you get the point. I really want to know why?
Why didn't they just call it a 429 Remington Magnum?
Older cartridges used the casing (not the bullet) for measurement. It used to be the the bullet had a smaller base and could fit inside the casing, the ogive and sides of the bullet measured the same as the case. .38 Special casing is approx. .380, and the same with the .44 mag. Some manufacturers continue the measurement of the case today.
the bullets for the 10mm and the 38-40 are the same diameter, but the casings are different.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #106
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^^^ Thank you danf_fl

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Old 08-07-2010, 06:26 PM   #107
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What is M.O.A. I understand that it is "minute of angle" or something like that. But what does it mean? I am talking about the reference people use when they are talking about tight groups.

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Old 08-07-2010, 07:20 PM   #108
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What is M.O.A. I understand that it is "minute of angle" or something like that. But what does it mean? I am talking about the reference people use when they are talking about tight groups.
A SUB-MOA gun would shoot a less than 1" grouping at 100 yds.

The exact measure of MOA is 1.0471996" at 100 yards of distance. MOA is a quadratic effect so 1" of MOA at 100 yards would equate to .5235998" at 50 yards, 2.0943992" at 200 yards, 3.1415988" at 300 yards and so on.


http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/accuracy-not-linear-25854/#post267325 << Click Here

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f65/moa-16273/#post136561 << Click Here



From Shooting Times

Minute Of Angle

Ask most shooters to define minute of angle (MOA) and you'll probably elicit the reply, "It's an inch at 100 yards."
By Hugh Birnbaum

Ask most shooters to define minute of angle (MOA) and you'll probably elicit the reply, "It's an inch at 100 yards." A purist overhearing this will almost certainly chime in with a smug correction to the effect that a minute of angle is really 1.0471996 inches at 100 yards, but if you're numerically challenged and ask nicely, you may round it off to 1.05 inches. As a lifelong nitpicker, I admire the precision the purist brings to the party, but as a shooter I think I'll stick with a simple, useful, rounded-down inch. After all, even at 1000 yards the additional decimals don't quite add up to a half-inch. I, for one, cannot hold close enough at that distance for the discrepancy to matter.



The jaws of the caliper indicate the formal value of minute of angle (MOA) at 100 yards, 1.0471996 inches, allowing for vagaries of operator interpolation and mechanical tolerances. The ruler shows 1 inch, the commonly accepted value of MOA at 100 yards.
The MOA is a useful tool for shooters because it varies in direct proportion to distance. Our nominal inch at 100 yards is a half-inch at 50 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, 3 inches at 300 yards, and so on. This makes it possible to calibrate adjustments for range and windage on precision iron sights and optical sights in easy-to-use standardized increments of fractional and whole MOA.

A typical hunting scope is likely to have adjustment dials click-stopped and marked at minor intervals of 1/4 MOA with major calibration marks at 1 MOA intervals. A high-power scope for benchrest, target, or varmint applications may have 1/8 MOA adjustment capability. And it's not unusual for red-dot handgun sights to have coarser adjustment intervals of 1/2 MOA or so for convenience at typically shorter handgun distances.

Not all scope adjustments hew to the familiar 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 increments. European optical sights usually feature MOA increments attuned to the metric system. A case in point is the Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24X 72mm long-range model, which has 1/5 MOA clicks that correspond neatly to a 0.5cm shift in point of aim at 100 meters. Closer to home, I have, and still happily use, an aging Burris pistol scope that was made with 1/6 MOA adjustment intervals.




Most optical sights have adjustment drums or dials marked with click values. The high-power target scope (L) is clicked at 1/8 MOA intervals while the 1.5-6X hunting model (R) has 1/4 MOA clicks. The tiny dial of the red-dot pistol sight (B) is unmarked, but the owner's manual indicates a click value of about 1/2 MOA. As a rule, finer adjustment increments are useful for long-range or high-precision shooting, with coarser clicks easier to live with in close-range, less finicky applications.


Most optical sights have adjustment drums or dials marked with click values. The high-power target scope (L) is clicked at 1/8 MOA intervals while the 1.5-6X hunting model (R) has 1/4 MOA clicks. The tiny dial of the red-dot pistol sight (B) is unmarked, but the owner's manual indicates a click value of about 1/2 MOA. As a rule, finer adjustment increments are useful for long-range or high-precision shooting, with coarser clicks easier to live with in close-range, less finicky applications.
Most optical sights have elevation and windage dials marked with the click values to reduce confusion. If you have a sight that doesn't indicate the adjustment increment, write the click value on a self-stick label or snippet of tape and stick it on the sight or firearm. A day will come when you'll be glad you did.

When you shop for an optical sight, make sure the models you consider have MOA click values consistent with your shooting needs. Fine adjustment increments benefit fiendishly precise benchrest and varmint shooters. Coarser clicks are more practical for less hypercritical pursuits.

Personally, I spent a year being driven to distraction shooting high-power rifle silhouette with an otherwise excellent scope that had 1/8 MOA clicks. The elevation drum provided 71/2 MOA per one full turn. I needed 12 MOA from the chicken setting to the ram setting, a trip from 0 for the chicken through a full turn past 0 to 41/2 on the scale for the ram. I trained myself to wind down to the chicken 0 immediately after shooting rams to avoid utter confusion. I finally gave up and replaced the scope with one clicked at 1/4 MOA intervals with 15 MOA per full turn of the drum. A bit of forethought in initial scope selection would have spared me considerable agita. Live and learn.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:20 PM   #109
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What is M.O.A. I understand that it is "minute of angle" or something like that. But what does it mean? I am talking about the reference people use when they are talking about tight groups.
1" at 100 yards is considered to be One M.O.A. It's actually a little larger than that, by the numbers, but for the sake of discussion, when someone is talking about 1/2 M.O.A. they are talking one half an inch for every 100 yards.

Thus, a rifle that shoots a 1", 3 or 5 shot group ( three is most common, 5 is more accurate ) at 100 yards would be a 1 M.O.A. rifle.

A 1" group at 200 yards, would be a 1/2 M.O.A. and would be considered great accuracy. A 2" group at 200 yards would still be a 1 M.O.A. rifle.

A 1" group at 400 yards, would be 1/4 M.O.A. and would be considered exceptional accuracy. A 4" group at 400 yards would still ne a 1 M.O.A. rifle.

Does that make sense?
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:54 AM   #110
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Thank you all for the MOA discussion. I was wondering about that myself but didn't think to ask it here.

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