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Old 06-25-2010, 07:44 PM   #21
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Courts get backed up, you shouldn't be penalized because the state was to busy to deal with your appeal in the specified time.

If the convicted waives the appeal process, give them 24 hours and bring in an independent third party and video tape them declining the appeals process. After that the sentence should be carried out as soon as is convenient for the state.

If any appeal is taking longer than 1 year due to the fault of the state or federal government, a fine of $1,000 per day should be taken from the offending court and paid directly to the victims family or to a general victims fund.
I like these points very much! On the "state was too busy" deal, the state should be penalized similarly to the last point above, IMO.

I have often wondered why somebody who doesn't want an appeal has to wait for sooooo long to be wormbait. If they have reconciled to their guilt & accepted their fate, let us get them to it.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:55 PM   #22
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I'm with Canebrake on this one. Eyes like the whole spare parts idea. I mean, why waste a perfectly good liver.

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Old 06-25-2010, 08:00 PM   #23
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Why? there is no need for all that. Your just going to slow down the process.
Why should those courts even exist if they are not used as an appeal to a lower courts decision? There is no case more important in my mind that when the state is weighing the decision to take a life, that can never be overturned once carried out.

It all comes down to at what point do you think we get diminishing returns from the process. Obviously most people think today's method takes way to long. But the opposite side of the coin would be the judge just shooting the defendant instead of reading the sentence. The more steps involved in the process the more likely an innocent person will be discovered but also the more expensive and longer the process takes. But after each step in the process the odds of finding an innocent person are dropping dramatically. The line must be drawn somewhere or there is no death penalty just the threat of death penalty.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:20 PM   #24
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The line must be drawn somewhere or there is no death penalty just the threat of death penalty.
Which is where we are now.

Too much court time is wasted with frivolous lawsuits. IMO, if a person files what turns out to be a frivolous lawsuit, that person should be fined 10,000 dollars. Maybe this would reduce the suits like the hot cup of coffee granny granny just bought was HOT!!
(i dont care if she won the case, it was bullsh!t, and you know it!)
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:34 PM   #25
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I have a problem with specific timelines. Courts get backed up, you shouldn't be penalized because the state was to busy to deal with your appeal in the specified time.
On this, I would agree. However, under the plan to exchange cases with different districts, a case that was originally tried and concluded in a busy locale, like Chicago, could be outsourced to the middle of the country where a much smaller town has court time just waiting to be used.

Having the same trial, over and over again, in the same district/locale/like minded state is why we have such problems now. Defense Attorney's pose appeal after appeal based on "jury of peers" BS.

By setting a concrete plan in stone, the first trial is round one, if you are convicted, you get a round two, within 12 months, in a completely different locale that has NOTHING to do with any of the people associated with the first trial.

Must more neutrality is achieved and cuts down on the "corrupted jury pool" by way of the media.


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Removing appeals based on behavior sounds good but if someone is being railroaded by the system what's to stop the same system from making their job easier by claiming that the guy on death row did something and now he loses an appeal.
I agree. No arguement from me on this point.

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Appeals for death row cases should be taken to the second highest court in the state on first appeal. Highest court in the state on the next appeal and the SCOTUS is always an option should they choose to take the final appeal. No reason to waste everyone's time when everyone involved know the appeals are going to end up at the top in the long run.
I would like to get to the point where SCOTUS is out of the loop on these trials. The timeline is just TOO LONG and we, the taxpayers, end up paying millions by the time there is a conclusion, regardless of decision.

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If the convicted waives the appeal process, give them 24 hours and bring in an independent third party and video tape them declining the appeals process. After that the sentence should be carried out as soon as is convenient for the state. No need to make guards work overtime to meet a deadline.
I agree, but there should be a timeframe. Because the state can't be bothered to hold an execution for 2 months, for whatever reason, doesn't mean the tax payer should have to pay to house this convict. There needs to be a time frame in place as a maximum allowable by law. I still like 7 days.

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If any appeal is taking longer than 1 year due to the fault of the state or federal government, a fine of $1,000 per day should be taken from the offending court and paid directly to the victims family or to a general victims fund.
Victim as in the victim of the crime that caused the trial in the first place? If so, I am all for that, but make it 11 months and one day. At one year, triple it.

If by "victim" you mean the defendant, then I am against that. Let the defendant go after the state in normal fashion should they be falsely accused and "set up" the same way libel is pursued.

Some really good ideas you guys have. We need to expand on these, then get an up and comer in the political ranks on the horn.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:30 PM   #26
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Victim as in the victim of the crime that caused the trial in the first place? If so, I am all for that, but make it 11 months and one day. At one year, triple it.

If by "victim" you mean the defendant, then I am against that. Let the defendant go after the state in normal fashion should they be falsely accused and "set up" the same way libel is pursued.

Some really good ideas you guys have. We need to expand on these, then get an up and comer in the political ranks on the horn.
Oh hell no to the defendant getting the money. If they are later found innocent well depending on the circumstances it was a "jury of their peers" that convicted them and while that is tragic it is also the fairest method I can think of and a simple sorry is all they get. If tampered evidence from the police or direct juror bias is involved ok now were talking lawsuit with settlement. I actually have an idea about overturned convictions but that is another thread.

I was suggesting the family or families of the victim of the crime(s) committed receive the money. Not that they specifically deserve any money from the state but we are supposed to offer a speedy trial. This would benefit both the defendant and the family of the victims in that they would now have some closure and also provide the only motivation I know of that politicians follow, money. However this would probably just end up in increased taxes but you get the idea.

7 day timeframe sounds good to me. I just don't like making concrete numbers that are to small, they don't take into account regular work schedules and holidays and such. I would hate to see some prison guard have to miss Christmas with their kid because the law says they must execute someone within X hours.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:35 PM   #27
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Which is where we are now.

Too much court time is wasted with frivolous lawsuits. IMO, if a person files what turns out to be a frivolous lawsuit, that person should be fined 10,000 dollars. Maybe this would reduce the suits like the hot cup of coffee granny granny just bought was HOT!!
(i dont care if she won the case, it was bullsh!t, and you know it!)
Europe actually has this one pretty good. They have a "loser pays" system. So if you sue and are found to be wrong, you pay the fees of the loser in the case. Seems like that would prevent frivolous suits to me. As far as the Mcdonalds case, yeah I agree with it at face value but after hearing more and more about it, I can see where the jury would award her the verdict, I would have maybe MAYBE awarded the verdict of medical bills though, nothing more. The concept being that she should have gotten like first or second degree burns but McDonalds kept their coffee hotter than any one else and because of that she got third degree burns. But again, I say only MAYBE, depending on what I heard at the trial I think I was just as likely to say she was a dumbass and make her pay McDonalds court costs.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:53 PM   #28
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maybe I am wrong on this, but third degree burns are CHARRED skin! I dont think coffee could char skin, second degree maybe, blisters. I knew a guy who opened the radiator cap on an overheating car, the temp gauge was pegged, over 260 degrees, he lost most of the skin on his chest, and I remember him telling me that he had second degree burns. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Old 06-26-2010, 12:09 AM   #29
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I believe that is correct UNLESS there is new evidence introduced that changes the classification of the charges.
If the classification of the crime is changed then they are not being charged with the same crime.
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:27 PM   #30
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I don't have a problem with quickly dispatching anyone who was convicted of murder on DNA evidence. There have been too many death penalty many cases over-turned when DNA evidence later proved that the person found guilty did not do the crime.

Has anyone here ever read Innocent Man? Two Okies were railroaded on death row by a prosecutor and a the Ada, OK police department. Turns out that the man who killed and raped the lady victim was coerced into testifying against the two by the scummy prosecutor. This witness was later found guilty of the murder by DNA evidence.

Yep, one of those guys was a scumbag but he was not a murdering scumbag. DNA evidence later proved that those men did not murder that lady. After Barry Scheck and the federal court was through with Ada and the state of OK; the city of Ada had to raise property taxes twice in order to pay their share of the judgement.

Joyce Gilchrist was the Oklahoma county "forensics examiner". They called her "black magic" because she seemed able to find evidence where there was none. Turns out that she was a junk scientist and a liar.

Junk Justice and Okie Science - Joyce Gilchrist

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