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Old 03-11-2009, 02:34 PM   #1
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Default First 'bama now Germany

FOXNews.com - Police: 16 Killed in German School Shooting, Including Teen Gunman - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

these school shootings and other "rampages" really chap my bag because the first thing jumping into people's minds are "we need to outlaw guns" whereas the first thing jumping into my mind is "we need more people to have CCW's and teachers need to be carrying guns at school".

i think this germany situation spells that out pretty well. its a lot harder to get a gun in germany, correct me if im wrong, but im under the impression that an average person cant even get an assault rifle there. but *gasp* some retard got his hands on a gun illegally in a country where it is a lot harder to do much of anything including get guns in.

but nobody will think of this as an example about the flaws of excessive gun control.

and of course, there is this, the church shooting, and the alabama shooting 3 days in a row...how convenient for barak osama.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:42 PM   #2
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I agree.
More CCW would prevent this, not make it worse.

S.S

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Old 03-11-2009, 02:46 PM   #3
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I know a couple of teachers that want to be able to carry at work. But, the whole "gun free zone" just tells a nut job that there is a zone full of unarmed victims.

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Old 03-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #4
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Again, my condolences to the victims and their families. And I am getting a little tired of saying that today.

Well, it's interesting in that in 2002, when that other kid did the same thing, Germany raised the laws to restrict ownership under the age of 21.

At the time, 7 years ago, this person as 10. 18 was the minimum age at THAT time, so he obviously didn't have a legal firearm at any point in his life, yet somehow got his hands on one.

He graduated last year, and I am betting he still had a girlfriend, or someone he thought of as a girlfriend, that was in a lower grade, which prompted this "attack". He goes into the school, shoots several students, a couple of teachers, but then leaves, hijacks a car and let's the people inside the car go. Why?

Because they weren't the reason for his rage. The people in the car were not a concern because they were not associated to the "trigger" of incident, which was specifically the school - and most probably, at least one of the victims. The people in the car were not killed because they had nothing to do with the situation at hand. That plays a lot into the kids psyche' - The same way those two idiots in Columbine ( whom I won't name and given them any more "fame" ) let a couple of kids go in the parking lot ahead of time - even though one was a "white hat" - the supposed focus of their rage.

The case ended in, again, suicide by cop. And again, not surprising. Most Spree Killers have no desire to live with their lives and the effects of their actions.

If anything, I think this case clearly demonstrates AGAINST the Obama/Biden plans to take guns away from everyone. Here is a kid in a land that has NEVER been allowed to legally own a firearm, yet he got his hands on one and did way too mcuh damage because NO ONE could defend themselves....

A concept the folks on the Left do not understand until they are put in a position where it is their lives, or their children's lives, that are victims of what is clearly an illegal act....

JD

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Old 03-12-2009, 06:37 PM   #5
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o.k. Guys,

now talking as a german...;-))

No, CCW wouldn`t have prevented anything here.

Here some facts, you guys might not have come across yet.

The kid was 17 years old. Was in psycological treatment for depressions.
His father was/is a legal weapon owner. Had a total amount of 15 firearms and abou 4600 rounds of ammo in different calibers.
The problem wasn`t the 15 firewarms. The problem was the one pistol that the father had in his bed side table and approx. 300 rounds of ammo lying around.
According to german gun law. Any firearm has to be stored it a gun safe. The ammo has to be stored at least in a steel cabinet and locked, so no one can access it.

The father broke the law, by not storing the pistol according to law, and that will really mess up his day, next to the situation itself.

I really don`t believe, that CCW in germany would have really changed anything.

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If anything, I think this case clearly demonstrates AGAINST the Obama/Biden plans to take guns away from everyone. Here is a kid in a land that has NEVER been allowed to legally own a firearm, yet he got his hands on one and did way too mcuh damage because NO ONE could defend themselves....
This is not correct.
Germany allows ownership of firearms. It is just a pain in the ass to get the permission to own them. And that was not the problem. The problem was a stupid father, who left a loaded pistol in his bedside table, so his depressive son could access it.
All other firearms were locked in the safe.

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He graduated last year, and I am betting he still had a girlfriend, or someone he thought of as a girlfriend, that was in a lower grade, which prompted this "attack". He goes into the school, shoots several students, a couple of teachers, but then leaves, hijacks a car and let's the people inside the car go. Why?
Wrong on this one. He never had a girfirend.
He was a poor kid who was lousy in school, the teachers and the other kids from class called him a looser, because his grades were really crap. His teacher was female, and she told him, if he coninues like this, he will end up as a garbage man. That not only once. That was done over years.

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At the time, 7 years ago, this person as 10. 18 was the minimum age at THAT time, so he obviously didn't have a legal firearm at any point in his life, yet somehow got his hands on one.
correct! But the german government didn`t learn anytjing. Instead they hadend the german gun laws and control law for violent computer games. All schools and teachers requested school psychiatrists. But they cost money and the government wasn`t and aisn`t willing to pay anything for that.

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these school shootings and other "rampages" really chap my bag because the first thing jumping into people's minds are "we need to outlaw guns" whereas the first thing jumping into my mind is "we need more people to have CCW's and teachers need to be carrying guns at school".
At the moment, the german government has no intention of further hardening the gun laws in germany.
No law in the world will held, if you don`t follow the law.
The father of the kid broke the law and now will burn in hell for that.

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A concept the folks on the Left do not understand until they are put in a position where it is their lives, or their children's lives, that are victims of what is clearly an illegal act....
In this special case, we are talking about an illiegal firearm, because the kid had no legal permission to carry, own or transport any sort of firearm according to german law.
If his father would have kept the pistol in the gun safe, as reqested by law, his sone wouldn`t have been able to do so much harm.

Please excuse my harsh words here, but I am pi..ed off at the moment.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #6
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well then i say if stupid people say that bush admin. setup 9/11 them barack set this up. he did it to get rid of guns. time to start photo shopping pics of obama selling guns to felons

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Old 03-12-2009, 09:06 PM   #7
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Another case why responsible firearm owners need to lock guns up. Could he have gotten the firearm somewhere else? Sure, although, this does not change the fact that a legally attained firearm was used in this crime. This is another black day for responsible firearm owners.This crap makes me very sad for the families and their loses.

As mentioned earlier, why can't these idiots start their killing sprees by taking the first bullet.

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Old 03-12-2009, 09:22 PM   #8
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precisely...

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Old 03-13-2009, 12:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
At the moment, the german government has no intention of further hardening the gun laws in germany.
i hope you are right for the long term. however, it has only been a couple days and according to the stuff I've been reading over here, which is probably pretty limited so please correct me if I'm wrong, the last time there was a major shooting similar to this one, the legal gun age was raised from 18 to 21 as a direct result of that shooting.

who's to say that wont happen here again. and there's no denying that thoughts of stricter gun control are not running through people's (especially politicians) minds right now.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
i hope you are right for the long term. however, it has only been a couple days and according to the stuff I've been reading over here, which is probably pretty limited so please correct me if I'm wrong, the last time there was a major shooting similar to this one, the legal gun age was raised from 18 to 21 as a direct result of that shooting.

who's to say that wont happen here again. and there's no denying that thoughts of stricter gun control are not running through people's (especially politicians) minds right now.
Yes, this is correct. The legal age was raised from 18 to 21.

But again, the issue are not the legally owned firearms from the father that he kept acccording to german law in a gunsafe. The issue is the one firearm, a Beretta 9mm and approx. 300 rounds or more of ammo, that he didn`t keep according to german law.

Hardening the gun law again will not prevent something like this to happen again. The government just need to take the money into theyr hands and make random checks, if the legal firearm owners are keeping everything according to law.

Yes, thre are severy politicians, that are calling to even sharper gun laws. They have even suggested central gun storage, to get the firearms away from private housing.

Again the german government is not getting the reasons for such shootings, but only looking at the smallest issue.

But I also don`t really think, that a CCW would have changed anything and I don`t really think it is very smart, to have teachers carry firearms in school. Even armed security guards are not the answer to the main problems.
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