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Old 01-11-2009, 09:35 AM   #1
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Default Firearm database

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding an issue that is rising up here in germany at the moment.

The german goverment is thinking about a database of legally owned firearms, to provide, for instance, the police whith the information that there are firearms in the home they are sent to.
This should only be as information so the police can prepare themselves, that firearms might be involved in the case.

Do you have something like that in the US and what do you think of something like that?

My thought is, that if that can save lives of police officers, it might be a good thing to have, as long as the information stored in the database can not be missused.

Ken

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Old 01-11-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
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Openly we do not have data bases of gun ownership, which has been argued as violating laws, that prevent such gathering and maintaining of files on people. How ever if we really take a very close look as a few slips of the mouth here we may just find that there has been a database for quite some time.

I believe it was New Jersey that was caught in 2007 compiling and storing a database on every firearm bought sense the late 1980’s. They were ordered to destroy all records and on the surface they seemed to of, however they may not of which is suspected from some people in the Gun Community.

The way it is suppose to work here is the manufacture makes a gun, on the gun is a serial number which a database is kept at the manufacture of which dealer this gun went to. The gun store then sells the gun and they maintain a record of those sales. (Who bought it, the type, caliber, and serial number). Other then that there is not supposedly any other records kept.

The Law Enforcement here assumes that the resident may have guns in the home. In some areas they will ask the resident if they have guns in the house when they come to investigate something. Most law-abiding citizens are very cooperative with the LEA so there is very little problem.

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Old 01-11-2009, 11:08 AM   #3
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Hi opaww,

thank`s for your answer.

It is i discussion, that such a database should be setup here in germany.
Of course, we have a slightly different situation here, since it is so hard here legally get a handgun, that the police would not suspect a firearm when called, unless it is said that there has been a shooting or so.

The database here in germany already exists at the local weapon, hunting and fishing authority, when the firearm is bought and entered into the gun ownership license.
All firearms must be registerd in the gun ownership license, that I have to carry with me,as soon as I take the firearm out of my house.
So that authority has that information already and would only have to share this information whith the LEA.

The main idea of the database is, for example, when the police is called to a case of domestic violance by the neighbors, the police could get the additional information, that there are firearms in that home, so they could be prepared that the case could escalate.
That is basically the idea.

I personally think, if it can save the lives of police of law enforcement officer`s and the data is not used to obtain information on how many guns are there per household or so, it might be a good thing.

Ken

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Old 01-11-2009, 01:51 PM   #4
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The concept of a national register for all guns here has been around for quite some time. So far the American gun owners have resisted the open idea of a gun registration do to miss-trust of its purpose and intent. Most of us feel it would be for the purpose of gun confiscation and will not support it in any way shape or form.

How ever with the incoming and extremely anti gun administration we may be faced with it regardless if we want it or not. To disguise something as for the protection of LEA’s or for public safety is looked on by many as a slide further into a so******t state, so I will not support it. As a lawful and law abiding citizen as of right now I refuse to register any guns I have nor when I buy any in the future. It really is no ones business what I own or how many, or how they function, or even how many rounds they hold.

There are many people here that will tell you that none of our government has ever nor will they confiscate any personal own firearms from law-abiding citizens. But we also know that is bull**** they have already done so in several instances and will continue to do so.

As a person who has lived in Germany, and owned firearms while there, I never had any problems with the Polizei and my gun ownership. I have even worked with the Bundesgrenzschutz while armed without any problem. I found that many Germans do in fact like firearms and there just like many people in the world. I also understand the culture is different in Germany and people tend to respect authority, the laws and each other a lot more then many other places. So a form of registration does work there.

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Old 01-11-2009, 03:09 PM   #5
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Any government agency, employee, or elected official who contemplates such a thing has declared itself/him or herself my enemy, and the enemy of the Republic. Sadly, there won't be much we can do about it.

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Old 01-11-2009, 03:23 PM   #6
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In most states, only handguns or concealed-carry permits are on record, so police generally don't have foreknowledge of homeowners with rifles or shotguns.

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Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Any government agency, employee, or elected official who contemplates such a thing has declared itself/him or herself my enemy, and the enemy of the Republic. Sadly, there won't be much we can do about it.
'Til we choose to.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Hi guys,

I have a question regarding an issue that is rising up here in germany at the moment.

The german goverment is thinking about a database of legally owned firearms, to provide, for instance, the police whith the information that there are firearms in the home they are sent to.
This should only be as information so the police can prepare themselves, that firearms might be involved in the case.

Do you have something like that in the US and what do you think of something like that?

My thought is, that if that can save lives of police officers, it might be a good thing to have, as long as the information stored in the database can not be missused.

Ken
Let’s see; my gun information stored in a federal database and cannot be misused?

Oh yea, just like my, along with 400K other veterans’ medical records in that same federal database, that were posted on the web by some VA G-4 clerk and his work at home laptop?

I wonder what other items would find their way onto that questionnaire?

Total number of sex toys in your house? _____
Don’t you just love Obama? _YES_ (filled in for your convenience)
Has your wife had an abortion in the last 6 years? ____
List all bank account number(s) & balance(s) including those held outside the US. ______________________
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What is your daily average of the following, stored ammunition (and location)
Type # Location
JHP _______ ____________________
FMJ _______ ____________________
AP _______ ____________________
Tracer _______ ____________________
10 ga_______ ____________________
12 ga _______ ____________________
.22 _______ ____________________
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:11 PM   #8
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Just that we don`t misunderstand each other, I am not pro "Big Brother is watching you"!

@ Opaww,

I don`t know, when you lived in Germany, but I expect a lot has changed.
I also never had any problems whith the Polizei during my time in the security business, when I was carrying a firearm on duty.

I also know, there wiould never be a 100% way of knowledge in this area, just like canebrake said. CCW`s would be registered but rifles not.
But one of the differences here in germany is, that every firearm has to be registered in the license like on the pic.



All registered weapons are already stored in a database, but the information is not allowed to be shared between goverment agencies.

My thought is, and maybe a police officer here could also state his/her opinion about this, that if I was a police officer and I would be sent to a case of domestic violance, I would be happy to have any information I could get my hands on, if the information can save my life.

I also know, that in the past, no matter what country, information out of government databases have gone lost and ended up in the wrong hands, likne in great britain a cd containing all the social security details, etc.

But, if it was possible to prevent something like that happening, would it be o.k. or not for you guys?

ken

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Old 01-11-2009, 04:34 PM   #9
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It still would not be ok with me. Sure, you may be able to keep the information safe from accidental exposure, but the concern is purposeful exposure by this country's enemies who reside in the halls of government. I don't need Obama's SS getting access to my gun records so they know what to expect if they come to make me do "national service/slavery."

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Old 01-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #10
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Whatever benign reason they give for firearms regitration is merely camouflage. The information WILL be used against you at some date/time.
Registering gun owners is an end-around (American footbal reference) that some states have utilized. Some states call it a permit to purchase/own a firearm, but it is still registration.

Just say NO!

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