[spittinfire]

I was at Walmart tonight and decided I wanted a box of 45 auto. I knew about the recall but thought if Federal will pay for the shipping, what do I care...so I bought a box. I got home and decided to check my new box against the recall lots......no lot # on my box. I open the box to find this.



I instantly thought, man those primers look small. I should also say, I'm a Federal fan....I carry Fedral ammo daily, I like their brass for reloading and I've never had a bad experience with anything they've made.

I went downstairs and compared the new box to some other Federal Champion I had and the small primers were clear.

Pictured in the nickle is a hydrashok for easy comparison.



I haven't been able to get a hold of Federal yet to discuss this but I'm wonder if this might have something to do with their recall. I've heard of 45 auto ammo having small pistol primers in the past but never seen it from a major American manufacturer and this is the first time I've ever seen them in person. I just wanted to share.

[Jpyle]

Federal is a wholly owned subsidiary of ATK industries which also operates the Lake City ammo plant, owns American Eagle and Blackhawk Products. ATK is the largest ammo manufacturer in the US.

Website lists propellant problems as source of recall, no mention of primers.

http://www.federalpremium.com/pdf/45_Auto_warning.pdf

[spittinfire]

I know the recall was for a propellant issue but what's with the primers? And no lot # on the box? I could just shoot it and move on but it's irritating. I buy the ammo specifically because I like their brass. Now I've got 50 pieces I would have to keep seperate from the thousands of other 45 auto brass I've got which doesn't really seem worth the effort. I'm still going to call them and see what they say.

Anyone else gotten a box like this?

[TXnorton]

Spitty:

I ended up with a handful of .45 ACP brass that I had picked up at the range while collecting my own fired brass. The cases were marked WIN NT. I later learned that the "NT" stood for Non-Toxic. I guess these were made for indoor ranges with restrictions on lead. My guess is Federal is doing something similar. Does that box of ammo have any other markings?

I still pick up an occasional stay small primered .45 case at the range, and I end up throwing them away when I sort my brass before re-loading.

[c3shooter]

The NT (non toxic) and NR (nonreloadable) primers are a different size- to prevent them being reloaded. As he just said up there ^^^- anything else on da box?

[spittinfire]

Guys, there is nothing at all on this box. It looks like every other box of Federal Champion I've seen. I'm waiting on a return phone call from Federal.

[orangello]

Originally Posted by spittinfire

Guys, there is nothing at all on this box. It looks like every other box of Federal Champion I've seen. I'm waiting on a return phone call from Federal.

Well crap, all of my boxes were outside the recall series, except one that has no lot # marked. I will have to check the primers now.

[Eric0424]

Originally Posted by c3shooter

The NT (non toxic) and NR (nonreloadable) primers are a different size- to prevent them being reloaded.

The primer pockets on the Win-NT and ICC head stamped small primer 45ACP brass I have measure .174", the same as small pistol primer cartridges like the Remington and Winchester 9mm I just measured. Small pistol primers from CCI and Winchester measure .175" and seat firmly and to the proper depth in these 45ACP small primer cases. I believe I have some Federal and Speer 45 with small pistol primers too, but I couldn't find them to check their primer pockets. They should have been in the same bag as the Win NT and ICC brass.

If the Winchester NT are not re-loadable it's not because of the primer size. I don't have any NR stamped 45 brass to check, haven't located any yet, so I have no idea what size primer pocket they have. A web search for "45ACP with NR" head stamp brought up very little. I do have one aluminum CCI case in 9mm Luger with the N & R stamped on opposite sides of the Berdan primer. Like the one pictured here in 10mm.

Ammunition Headstamp Code: nr

The quote below was posted on Dillon's web site in 2007. My research into these small primer 45's, mixed with some once-fired brass I purchased late in 2009, indicated they're re-loadable using standard small pistol primers with standard load data for 45ACP. Same as the small Berdan primers in the aluminum and steel cases, they can be reloaded, but it really isn't worth the hassle with the steel, aluminum and/or Berdan primed cases unless they're hard to find calibers and the steel and aluminum cases will only last one or two loadings before they're useless. You also have to remove the internal anvil from the Berdan cases before Boxer primers can be pressed in.

The small, Boxer primed, brass, 45ACP cases are no different than their large primer counterparts.

Currently, all domestically produced lead-free primers are only manufactured in a small size. So when ammunition manufacturers offer lead-free primered ammo, they make brass with small primer pockets regardless of caliber. In addition to Winchester, Federal also offers NT 45 ACP ammo; also equipped with small primer pockets. This brass may be successfully loaded. It merely requires you to sort it from the other brass and use small primers in it.