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Old 02-18-2010, 09:04 PM   #21
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well, i have a more "serious" one: i have heard the the M-9 pistol, (Beretta 92 i believe) has a safety feature that prevents firing if something is pushing against the muzzle. can anyone confirm or deny?

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Old 02-20-2010, 04:56 AM   #22
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The "push on the muzzle safety" myth goes back to the 1911A1. It is not a safety- it is the disconnector, which prevents full auto fire. When you push on the muzzle, you take the gun out of battery (barrel no longer locked) and the disconenctor pin is depressed because its hole in the slide moved away.

Now, I'll throw a couple out that I have heard so MANY people swear to- they are all false- but up to y'all to say why.

A. The M16 is so deadly because the bullet tumbles in flight.

B. Them sneaky Commies made their rifles so that they could shoot OUR ammo, but we could not shoot theirs.

C. The .22 Short is a deadly little round, because it just bounces around inside, tearing everything up.

D. A shotgun is such a great defensive weapon because you don't have to aim it- just point and pull the trigger.

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Old 02-20-2010, 01:27 PM   #23
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C. The .22 Short is a deadly little round, because it just bounces around inside, tearing everything up.
When my dad worked ER, he said there were more visits/fatalities from .22 than any other. Of course it is not too big a stretch to imagine other factors like: oh its only a .22; or everyone in Texas has a .22 for each hand.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:22 PM   #24
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Yep- there are just a LOT of 22s out there. Get shot with a .22, trip to the ER. Shot with a .357, trip to the morgue, with no stop at the ER en route. If a .22 had the energy to "bounce", it would exit the body.

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Old 02-20-2010, 04:10 PM   #25
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Okay, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Can anyone provide data to squash this myth?
Ya see, that doesn't even make sense. Stopping power, if you want to use that term, should be used to describe the total final wound cavity's size. Temporary cavity by and large does not do any wounding when talking about pistol rounds. Energy dispersion doesnt wound.

So, the longer and bigger the wound channel, the better.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:11 PM   #26
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I was told that a 380 had more "stopping power" than a 9mm or 45 because it dispersed its energy faster...

not making that up, I met a guy who was convinced this was true.
Sounds more like a sales pitch than anything else. The rate of energy transfer is governed by the Laws of Physics not bullet calibers. A .380, a 9mm or .45 will all have different muzzle energies based on the grain and velocity at the time of impact. How that energy is transferred to the target depends on whether the bullet terminates at the target or passes through, essentially taking all of it's kinetic energy with it.

Obviously a large projectile that expands on impact or stops in the target is going to transfer it's energy into the target, that energy then needs to do something; that something is to destroy the matter around it, i.e. the internal organs of the bad guy.

So it is not the rate of transfer that determines "stopping power" as it is commonly used, it is the ballistic characteristics of the bullet, it's reaction to tissue and hydro-static pressure (FMJ v HP), muzzle velocity and mass (grains).
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:11 PM   #27
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The M-16 myth I got was that it isn't a terribly effective stopping round, but it would wound sufficiently to require another soldier to take you off the field, taking two out of battle.

The Drills told us it would tumble in the body. One was a Vietnam Vet, so I don't question that. He said that he'd shoot a guy in the chest, and there would be an exit wound in their cheek.

I was told the .22 was the preferred assassin round simply because it is the most produced caliber in the world, and impossible to trace to a specific weapon. Alterations, which I won't go into, made it impossible to trace.

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Old 02-21-2010, 05:51 AM   #28
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I've looked into hydrostatic shock a little. Some scientists say it's true, others say it is BS. Basically, our bodies are made up of mostly water. Let's say you have a ball floating in a pool and you throw a rock next to the ball. The ball is then disturbed by the rippling effect on the surface of the water caused by the rock. This is the same argument for hydrostatic shock. If you shoot someone in the torso with a .357 Magnum, it causes a powerful rippling effect that can damage their brain or other parts of their head. Has anyone seen anything like this or is it just a load of crap?

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Old 02-21-2010, 06:08 AM   #29
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I've looked into hydrostatic shock a little. Some scientists say it's true, others say it is BS. Basically, our bodies are made up of mostly water. Let's say you have a ball floating in a pool and you throw a rock next to the ball. The ball is then disturbed by the rippling effect on the surface of the water caused by the rock. This is the same argument for hydrostatic shock. If you shoot someone in the torso with a .357 Magnum, it causes a powerful rippling effect that can damage their brain or other parts of their head. Has anyone seen anything like this or is it just a load of crap?
Don't know about the effect on the head but I have seen the rippling effect on ballistic gel when a big bore magnum load hits it. The initial tissue displacement is much greater than the actual permanent tissue damage and wound channel and I have to believe that a certain amount of blunt force trauma is exerted on the surrounding organs. Some have argued, however, that the observable trauma is insufficient to explain the rate of incapacitation leading to the theory in question.

Here's a link to some work on the subject:

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0701/0701266.pdf
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:51 PM   #30
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Okay, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Can anyone provide data to squash this myth?
I could show him an expanded 45 HST and see what he says....
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