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Old 10-23-2012, 06:53 PM   #61
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Again you are asking nonsensical questions. Your thing about what you can or can not do on your property has been answered. Several times in fact.
Dismissed or incorrectly responded to from what i've seen. We are not the government, nor are we the owners of the roadway property, hence we have very limited rights to use those roadways.

Training is secondary to permission to use that property. Firearms are property of the individual enthusiast/hunter/plinker and may be used at the discretion of the owner of the firearm on their own property AND on the properties of others in such a manner as the other property owner allows.


Specifically regarding "incentives" for firearms training: MS has two levels of concealed carry permits for firearms owners wishing to carry off their property (incl. car & office) in a concealed manner for purposes other than sporting purposes. The state offers a regular concealed carry permit that allows an individual to carry in many places and requires no training, only a background check with fingerprints & such. The state offers an "enhanced" concealed carry permit for those willing to take a firearms training course (mostly safety focused); this "enhanced" permit allows concealed carry almost anywhere other than federal facilities or police stations or in-session court rooms. Some people i know have opted for the "enhanced" permit, some of them simply to get the training (which is available to nonpermit people as well).
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:35 PM   #62
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The problem isnt testing, anyone can act right for the 20min it takes to pretend to care while sitting next to a guy who holds the power to take that which we hold so dear. Its when the lights aren't on them, when the pressure is off. It's exactly that "its my right to drive" kind of thinking thats wrong. It proves an utter lack of reaponsibility, because all they care and are thinking about is self. Me, me, me, its my right to drive. No, its a privellege, one with major consequences when you dont respect the possible dangers. People just dont care to think about what can happen in that split second or that 5mph over.

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:37 PM   #63
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Driving licenses should be based on and affect credit scores. No excuses or allotments. Parking tickets, noise violations, all included!!!

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:17 PM   #64
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Traveling on the roadways in an automobile is a right. That has been established through the courts already. You just refuse to see it.
I'm coming in late in this, so be aware that I might have missed something along the way. Are you saying that "traveling" is a right or that driving is a right? Thanks
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:10 PM   #65
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I'm coming in late in this, so be aware that I might have missed something along the way. Are you saying that "traveling" is a right or that driving is a right? Thanks
Both. Basically that the right to travel also includes all means in which travel is possible (at least, that's what I've understood).
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:18 PM   #66
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I'm coming in late in this, so be aware that I might have missed something along the way. Are you saying that "traveling" is a right or that driving is a right? Thanks
This is where some people get confused.

If you are using your vehicle to travel to and from work, or to take your kids to the park, or to visit friends, or whatever it is traveling. But if you are using it to partake in commerce (that does not mean to go to the store and get groceries) then it is driving and is under the privy of the federal government. If you are driving an eighteen wheeler loaded with goods to deliver them to Walmart you are driving not traveling. If you are hauling a product from your home or business to another business for the purpose of commerce you are driving not traveling.

Just because you are operating a motor vehicle does not mean you are driving.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #67
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I'm coming in late in this, so be aware that I might have missed something along the way. Are you saying that "traveling" is a right or that driving is a right? Thanks
This is where some people get confused.

If you are using your vehicle to travel to and from work, or to take your kids to the park, or to visit friends, or whatever it is traveling. But if you are using it to partake in commerce (that does not mean to go to the store and get groceries) then it is driving and is under the privy of the federal government. If you are driving an eighteen wheeler loaded with goods to deliver them to Walmart you are driving not traveling.

Just because you are operating a motor vehicle does not mean you are driving.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:07 PM   #68
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This is where some people get confused.

If you are using your vehicle to travel to and from work, or to take your kids to the park, or to visit friends, or whatever it is traveling. But if you are using it to partake in commerce (that does not mean to go to the store and get groceries) then it is driving and is under the privy of the federal government. If you are driving an eighteen wheeler loaded with goods to deliver them to Walmart you are driving not traveling.

Just because you are operating a motor vehicle does not mean you are driving.
I guess i am one of those people.

Regardless of federal oversight/jurisdiction, can't state and local regulations apply to commercial driving? Don't OTR drivers obey speed limits posted by cities and counties as well as federal highway speed limits?

Can you cite some source for this definition of "driving" vs. "traveling"? (apologies if i missed that earlier) I guess i have always assumed that "driving" was controlling the speed and direction of a car or other means of travelling to a destination or just for pleasure.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:47 PM   #69
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State v. Johnson, 245 P 1073 For while a citizen has the right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that right does not extend to the use of the highways...as a place for private gain. For the latter purpose, no person has a vested right to use the highways of this state, but it is a privilege...which the (state) may grant or withhold at its discretion.

The majority decision in that case set the prescience that supports what I said about commerce.

I too partake in commerce with the stuff we do for our business. But yes, in the case of driving for commerce the fed can empower the states to issue regulations. Which is how I see commercial licences. Now, using the highway to drive to work would not be considered using it for private gain. But hauling produce for say, a farmer's market would be.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Eturnsdale View Post
This is where some people get confused.

If you are using your vehicle to travel to and from work, or to take your kids to the park, or to visit friends, or whatever it is traveling. But if you are using it to partake in commerce (that does not mean to go to the store and get groceries) then it is driving and is under the privy of the federal government. If you are driving an eighteen wheeler loaded with goods to deliver them to Walmart you are driving not traveling.

Just because you are operating a motor vehicle does not mean you are driving.
That, Eturnsdale, is the biggest load of bureaucratic BS you have posted in yet. WTF? Do we really need to parse it that finely? That reminds me of how the politicians have defined firearms for Pete's sake! Are you sure you aren't Bob-The-Fed?
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